Scottish Independence Referendum 2

[caledonia]

9 minutes ago, NEM said:

Thought you were discussing gimmicks nae policy?!

Would you like to try as you have always plenty to say on SNP policy

[The beard of mcinnes]

15 hours ago, caledonia said:

@The beard of mcinnes

Think this is your mob

I'm not pete wishart...not sure why you are addressing your ire to me.
Not like you to post unsubstantiated nonsense tho...

[The beard of mcinnes]

12 hours ago, Jocky Balboa said:

I'm sure you jest, but I have to say, the very thought of Peak Wetfart leaving behind his cosy lifestyle as a Westminster MP and returning to churning out third rate teuchter emo pop with Runrig, almost makes me want to reject independence... 

Either way, I stand by my long-held assertion that he and the current SNP leadership will never deliver independence, nor do they intend to. He can write all the blogs he wants, the truth is he's done the square root of fuck all to bring us closer to it since 2015, despite a perfect storm around them.

Let them prove me wrong.

How do they prove you wrong, there is no mechanism for them to 'deliver independence'.



 

[The beard of mcinnes]

11 hours ago, Poodler said:

I got a vile flyer through the door today from Douglas Lumsden about ending divide - no more independence chat. 

 

I'll be posting it back to him with a nasty comment about Walter smith 

No you wont

[caledonia]

3 minutes ago, The beard of mcinnes said:

I'm not pete wishart...not sure why you are addressing your ire to me.
Not like you to post unsubstantiated nonsense tho...

Never answered the question 

What do you think the best Conservative policy in Scotland is?

[Jocky Balboa]

3 hours ago, The beard of mcinnes said:

How do they prove you wrong, there is no mechanism for them to 'deliver independence'.



 

The moment the Westminster parliament rejected the EEA/EFTA amendment to the Brexit proposal, the SNP should have accepted the EU referendum result and, to coin many YES supporters' phrase, "used the mandate" and taken the issue of sovereignty to the highest courts in the UK, Europe and, if necessary, to the UN. That it was left to a grassroots supporter like Martin Keating to do this instead, tells me everything I need to know about the cowardly charlatans who run the SNP. They have extorted huge sums of money from members and grassroots supporters alike (ask them where the "ringfenced Indyref2 money" has gone and don't parrot their line that it's been "woven through the accounts", they don't have £500K) and are enjoying lavish lifestyles, with nothing but carrots and grievance monkey slogans to show for the decades of progress under Salmond and his predecessors. 

[The beard of mcinnes]

4 hours ago, caledonia said:

Never answered the question 

What do you think the best Conservative policy in Scotland is?

 

I'm not sure if your brain is fully operational but you've not asked me that question.
Furthermore, I'm not really sure why, as someone who has never voted for the Conservatives, I would be asked to defend their policies, nor would I do so.
That seems to be your move, post bullshit and anyone who says that is bullshit is a Tory.
You live in a strange little world of your own making.

[The beard of mcinnes]

53 minutes ago, Jocky Balboa said:

The moment the Westminster parliament rejected the EEA/EFTA amendment to the Brexit proposal, the SNP should have accepted the EU referendum result and, to coin many YES supporters' phrase, "used the mandate" and taken the issue of sovereignty to the highest courts in the UK, Europe and, if necessary, to the UN. That it was left to a grassroots supporter like Martin Keating to do this instead, tells me everything I need to know about the cowardly charlatans who run the SNP. They have extorted huge sums of money from members and grassroots supporters alike (ask them where the "ringfenced Indyref2 money" has gone and don't parrot their line that it's been "woven through the accounts", they don't have £500K) and are enjoying lavish lifestyles, with nothing but carrots and grievance monkey slogans to show for the decades of progress under Salmond and his predecessors. 

You've  typed lots of words, but none of them set out HOW they deliver independence.
It wouldn't be cos you don't know how they can would it, or is it because you know they can't.
 

[caledonia]

52 minutes ago, The beard of mcinnes said:

 

I'm not sure if your brain is fully operational but you've not asked me that question.
Furthermore, I'm not really sure why, as someone who has never voted for the Conservatives, I would be asked to defend their policies, nor would I do so.
That seems to be your move, post bullshit and anyone who says that is bullshit is a Tory.
You live in a strange little world of your own making.

Firstly you talk about SNP policy’s  all the time and you don't vote for them so why cant you Talk about another party’s policy’s   

So which Tory policy’s do you think are good in Scotland 

 

 

 

[caledonia]

Is Scotland the only country in the world paying off its neighbour's debts?

[For Fecks Sake]

7 hours ago, caledonia said:

Is Scotland the only country in the world paying off its neighbour's debts?

If you can provide the data behind this statement then please share it so we can all make up our own minds.

[daytripping]

5 minutes ago, For Fecks Sake said:

If you can provide the data behind this statement then please share it so we can all make up our own minds.

Look forward to a link from The National. Even the nats commissioned gers report say they'll have a huge deficit if they go alone.  

[Parklife]

9 minutes ago, daytripping said:

Look forward to a link from The National. Even the nats commissioned gers report say they'll have a huge deficit if they go alone.  

Look, here's another person who doesn't understand what the GERS report is. 

[Clydeside_Sheep]

4 minutes ago, Parklife said:

Look, here's another person who doesn't understand what the GERS report is. 

Its the starting point from which an independent Scotland would re-organise its finances from.

Accordingly it is very relevant to the creation of an independent Scotland.

Maybe the SNP should *finally* propose an economic case for independence?  That sounds a bit hard, right enough.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

With the passing of the hate crime bill, Scotland is now the only western country where the Government has announced its interest in policing what you say and do in your own home.

East Germany, eat your heart out.

[Parklife]

Just now, Clydeside_Sheep said:

Its the starting point from which an independent Scotland would re-organise its finances from.

No. It's an assessment of how Scotland performs as part of the UK. It's also largely based on estimates as many income streams and expenditures are not split geographically. 

Just now, Clydeside_Sheep said:

Accordingly it is very relevant to the creation of an independent Scotland.

It's relevant but should be looked at in context. 

Anyone claiming it's a barometer of how an independent Scotland would fare (like Dayts), simply doesn't understand what the report is. 

 

[Clydeside_Sheep]

20 hours ago, Jocky Balboa said:

 the cowardly charlatans who run the SNP. They have extorted huge sums of money from members and grassroots supporters alike (ask them where the "ringfenced Indyref2 money" has gone and don't parrot their line that it's been "woven through the accounts", they don't have £500K)

I saw tweets from SNP members over the weekend, saying they were getting calls from local branches asking for money for "ringfenced indyref2 money".

One asked what happened to the money which claimed to be already ringfenced and was told the branch could not comment on that.

 

[daytripping]

Gers is a best case scenario, in reality it would be much worse. Financial institutions would depart Edinburgh in their droves, oil companies would also move to escape the massive taxes.

It's doomed to fail. 

[Redforever86]

5 minutes ago, daytripping said:

Gers is a best case scenario, in reality it would be much worse. Financial institutions would depart Edinburgh in their droves, oil companies would also move to escape the massive taxes.

It's doomed to fail. 

Much better the way it is now with food banks, kids in poverty, 90% of our land owned by about 100 people, unemployment rising, and the Eton elite pissing away our taxes. 

[Foster14]

It's a wonder why the likes of Boris Johnson and that want to retain Scotland in the Union, given we are such a drain...

[Clydeside_Sheep]

14 minutes ago, Parklife said:

No. It's an assessment of how Scotland performs as part of the UK. It's also largely based on estimates as many income streams and expenditures are not split geographically. 

It's relevant but should be looked at in context. 

Anyone claiming it's a barometer of how an independent Scotland would fare (like Dayts), simply doesn't understand what the report is. 

 

I don't necessarily disagree with any of that, however it will rightly remain the best / most relevant document until the SNP finally present an economic case for an independent Scotland.  What are they scared of?

SNP big hitters Sturgeon, Salmond, Robertson, Swinney, Yousef and Hosie are all on record as praising the GERS figures, pre-referendum.

In the white paper for the referendum, Alex Salmond said "GERS is the authoritative publication on Scotland’s public finances".

[Clydeside_Sheep]

Just now, Foster14 said:

It's a wonder why the likes of Boris Johnson and that want to retain Scotland in the Union, given we are such a drain...

Scotland is good for the Union, just as the Union is good for Scotland.

Scotland provides ship building and other defence specialities (e.g. Thales electronics in Glasgow), important military bases, troops, renewable and finite resources, major infrastructure such as ports, airports & hospitals, 5 of the worlds 200 best Universities, etc.  Scotland brings much to the table as a UK partner.

Of course, several of these things directly depend on the Union in order to remain extant and keep providing employment, taxes etc to the Scottish economy.

[Parklife]

 

5 minutes ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

SNP big hitters Sturgeon, Salmond, Robertson, Swinney, Yousef and Hosie are all on record as praising the GERS figures, pre-referendum.

In the white paper for the referendum, Alex Salmond said "GERS is the authoritative publication on Scotland’s public finances".

Politicians like a report that they can spin to back up their argument? Who'd have thunk it?!? 

[Clydeside_Sheep]

Just now, Parklife said:

 

Politicians like a report that they can spin to back up their argument? Who'd have thunk it?!? 

Of course there is spin, but all that's changed is what separatists say about the figures, not the credibility or relevance of the figures.

[Parklife]

Just now, Clydeside_Sheep said:

Of course there is spin, but all that's changed is what separatists say about the figures, not the credibility or relevance of the figures.

"Separatists" lol. 

The figures are as credible as they ever were. They're an assessment of Scotland's finances as part of the UK, based largely on estimates of revenues and expenditures in many areas which cannot be split geographically. 

Anyone who believes they present an assessment of what an independent Scotland's finances would be like doesn't understand what they are. 

[Foster14]

Just now, Clydeside_Sheep said:

Scotland is good for the Union, just as the Union is good for Scotland.

Scotland provides ship building and other defence specialities (e.g. Thales electronics in Glasgow), important military bases, troops, renewable and finite resources, major infrastructure such as ports, airports & hospitals, 5 of the worlds 200 best Universities, etc.  Scotland brings much to the table as a UK partner.

Of course, several of these things directly depend on the Union in order to remain extant and keep providing employment, taxes etc to the Scottish economy.

I get the argument of the sum of the parts being greater than the individual parts, but the points you raise above are worth allowing us to run a deficit as a % of GDP at almost 4 times the rate of the rest of the UK?!

Can I ask which of the things above would not exist in an independent Scotland?

[caledonia]

1 hour ago, daytripping said:

Look forward to a link from The National. Even the nats commissioned gers report say they'll have a huge deficit if they go alone.  

Gers hahahaha 

 

 

[Foster14]

5 minutes ago, Parklife said:

"Separatists" lol. 

The figures are as credible as they ever were. They're an assessment of Scotland's finances as part of the UK, based largely on estimates of revenues and expenditures in many areas which cannot be split geographically. 

Anyone who believes they present an assessment of what an independent Scotland's finances would be like doesn't understand what they are. 

Not only are their difficulties in assessing splits of revenues and expenditures but there is also the major issue of them being a reflection of the current revenues and expenditures in the world of devolution.  Too many of the mechanisms that control the revenue and expenditure are decided upon in a location outwith of Scotland to put too much credence on them.

[caledonia]

32 minutes ago, daytripping said:

Gers is a best case scenario, in reality it would be much worse. Financial institutions would depart Edinburgh in their droves, oil companies would also move to escape the massive taxes.

It's doomed to fail. 

Wonder how other countries manage then.

[daytripping]

3 minutes ago, caledonia said:

Wonder how other countries manage then.

We are managing with the Country we have. How do you think the vaccine roll out in our region would be going if we were separate? We'd be begging our neighbour for supplies. Instead we're motoring though the roll out, best performing Country in Europe by a Country mile.