Scottish Independence Referendum 2

[Poodler]

2 minutes ago, The Gee Man said:

Too many at Vote time panicked about Europe! The fear of being out , the irony. 

Europe and the UK are outdated anyway. Import the third world, become the third world.

most cities will be like mogadishu in 20 years. 
 

Was a good run though. 

[manboobs109]

1 hour ago, Reed or deed said:

Free baby care products

Free childcare

free period products

free bus travel for students

free prescriptions

free university fees

free social care

free elderly personal care

To name but a few.

The fact that “people” in scotland didn’t vote to get out from under the heel of the english says a lot more about the people than it does the politics or parties.

There are some amount of idiots in scotland. In fact, given the means that we have, scotland is one of the most idiotic countries in the world.

None of that is "free" though. We all pay for it in the end. 

Binmen paying taxes for rich kids to go to St Andrews and become bankers sticks in my throat tbh. No reason they can't pay fees back, like student loans.

[milne_afc]

16 minutes ago, manboobs109 said:

None of that is "free" though. We all pay for it in the end. 

Binmen paying taxes for rich kids to go to St Andrews and become bankers sticks in my throat tbh. No reason they can't pay fees back, like student loans.

Far too many bullshit courses at modern ‘universities’. Free further education should be limited and means tested.

[Reed or deed]

40 minutes ago, manboobs109 said:

None of that is "free" though. We all pay for it in the end. 

Binmen paying taxes for rich kids to go to St Andrews and become bankers sticks in my throat tbh. No reason they can't pay fees back, like student loans.

It’s sure free for the people that are eligible for it.

All designed to help low earners avoid poverty and get the same opportunity.

 

[BrianFaePerth]

1 hour ago, Poodler said:

Europe and the UK are outdated anyway. Import the third world, become the third world.

most cities will be like mogadishu in 20 years. 
 

Was a good run though. 

Totally right. UK or independent Scotland means fuck all when you’re becoming the new africa.

[manboobs109]

28 minutes ago, Reed or deed said:

It’s sure free for the people that are eligible for it.

All designed to help low earners avoid poverty and get the same opportunity.

 

Well why not let low earners get it "free" then?

[Reed or deed]

32 minutes ago, manboobs109 said:

Well why not let low earners get it "free" then?

How many students do you know that are high earners?

[CCB III]

1 hour ago, manboobs109 said:

None of that is "free" though. We all pay for it in the end. 

Binmen paying taxes for rich kids to go to St Andrews and become bankers sticks in my throat tbh. No reason they can't pay fees back, like student loans.

Alternatively, binmen paying for working class kids to get an education and potentially pull their families up the economic ladder. 
 

Unless you're advocating for a classless society?

[CCB III]

1 hour ago, milne_afc said:

Far too many bullshit courses at modern ‘universities’. Free further education should be limited and means tested.

Don't mind the idea of it being tested against the income of your family and amount of children etc. 

 

I also think apprentices get the biggest shaft. You can effectively be paid slave wages (relative to the nation we live in) because you aren't fully trained, but you're still there 40 hours a week doing work. 
 

Farce. 

[manboobs109]

46 minutes ago, Reed or deed said:

How many students do you know that are high earners?

C'mon eh? You know what I mean.

[manboobs109]

40 minutes ago, CCB III said:

Don't mind the idea of it being tested against the income of your family and amount of children etc. 

 

I also think apprentices get the biggest shaft. You can effectively be paid slave wages (relative to the nation we live in) because you aren't fully trained, but you're still there 40 hours a week doing work. 
 

Farce. 

No reason it can't be taken off future earnings, like student loans. Working class kids goes to Uni, ends up in well paid job, pays tuition fees back. 

 

[Reed or deed]

28 minutes ago, manboobs109 said:

C'mon eh? You know what I mean.

 

26 minutes ago, manboobs109 said:

No reason it can't be taken off future earnings, like student loans. Working class kids goes to Uni, ends up in well paid job, pays tuition fees back. 

 

Aye i don’t disagree with you there.

There has to be a careful balance with the policy on these type of things though.

Otherwise it can be perceived as penalising people for making a success of themselves and “rewarding” those who don’t. Or more importantly, choose not to.

 

[DD1903]

Let's not forget the free fees has resulted in unis offering more spaces to foreign students in a bid to get more cash in...as the Scottish gov cap how many Scottish students unis can take in. 

[For Fecks Sake]

2 hours ago, CCB III said:

Don't mind the idea of it being tested against the income of your family and amount of children etc.

^ Agree with this

1 hour ago, Reed or deed said:

There has to be a careful balance with the policy on these type of things though.

Otherwise it can be perceived as penalising people for making a success of themselves and “rewarding” those who don’t. Or more importantly, choose not to.

^And also agree with this.

If the Scottish Govt did go down this route, it would make it difficult to justify the higher taxes for those "with the broadest shoulders" (@ Millertime) but I guarantee that nothing would change on that front.

[sigh]

23 minutes ago, For Fecks Sake said:

^ Agree with this

^And also agree with this.

If the Scottish Govt did go down this route, it would make it difficult to justify the higher taxes for those "with the broadest shoulders" (@ Millertime) but I guarantee that nothing would change on that front.

would they charge a student more for their second degree though than their first?

[The Gee Man]

6 minutes ago, sigh said:

would they charge a student more for their second degree though than their first?

There are professional students tho that have no desire to ever get a job and just keep getting bursaries etc. 

[Jocky Balboa]

A huge problem with higher education in the UK, post-1999, is that the  market has failed. When almost all universities (with very few exceptions) charge the full £9k a year in England and Wales, to maximise revenue, it does not reflect their real world value. While a degree in a subject where there's a chronic shortage of graduates (Dentistry being a prime example) could arguably be worth top fees, a degree in Mickey Mouse subjects (various Liberal Arts, for instance) often leave graduates underemployed, or even unemployed, for many years after graduation, often never paying their loans off.

Conversely, while the SNP lifted the burden of tuition fees from many squeezed lower middle class parents, they haven't addressed the elephant in the room; the poorest students suffer due to abolition of the means-tested grant system and its replacement with loans - in other words, many poorer students are impacted by huge debt at the start of their career, compounded with employment opportunities which are often speculative, at best. Is this a deterrent to gifted young people? Is a limited, merit-based scholarship/grant system in the country's best interests, to ensure a good student isn't priced out of the system? 

[For Fecks Sake]

12 minutes ago, sigh said:

would they charge a student more for their second degree though than their first?

Its been near 30 years since I finished university, I thought that you only got funding for the one degree and you had to fund any further degrees yourself now? 

[sigh]

4 minutes ago, For Fecks Sake said:

Its been near 30 years since I finished university, I thought that you only got funding for the one degree and you had to fund any further degrees yourself now? 

I was being facetious

 

[CCB III]

1 hour ago, For Fecks Sake said:

^ Agree with this

^And also agree with this.

If the Scottish Govt did go down this route, it would make it difficult to justify the higher taxes for those "with the broadest shoulders" (@ Millertime) but I guarantee that nothing would change on that front.

I'd still tax people who earn more in times whereby basic necessities are extortionate. 

[CCB III]

Should add that I think in general education should be free. 
 

Although, now, with the abundance of information available it is effectively free. 
 

You just don't get a piece of paper to show you know anything or how to apply it. 
 

Obviously, that's not true for all degrees, but it is for a good amount.  

[Clydeside_Sheep]

On 1/18/2024 at 9:40 AM, Simply Red said:

Does it really? Take your union jack specs off son. 

Boris Johnson, Liz fucking Truss, Matt Hancock, Braverman, Moog, Cleverly

No idea who you are trying to convince with the relentless unionist propaganda but its pointless.

Unless youre a mong, there cant be many on here that will be swayed on the independence issue by any hypocritical Daily Mail hun shite youve got to say on the matter.

Quite the diatribe, son.  🤣

This is the problem with Scottish nationalists: pointing out issues (like trying to ban something you cant even define) is always brushed off as "unionist propaganda".

 

[Clydeside_Sheep]

On 1/18/2024 at 9:43 AM, milne_afc said:

STFU C_S, min

https://twitter.com/inglesongrey/status/1747740979233231251?s=46

 Excruciating!  🤣

[Clydeside_Sheep]

On 1/18/2024 at 5:28 PM, elephantstone78 said:

Incorrect my friend. 
You pay income tax to hmrc. They are responsible for its collection. 

You are also sadly not on solid ground when implying Westminster wastes less cash than Holyrood. 

£4bn on unusable ppe  

Chris “failing” grayling first wasting £175Mill on a disastrous part privatisation of probation services. 
Then another £100Mill or so on giving ferry contracts to companies that had no ferries, consultancy fees and being sued for breach of contract by Eurotunnel. 
 

And let’s not even start on the cost of the disastrous brexit referendum and subsequent loss of GDP. 
 

Aside from all that, top posting as per. 

Re income tax, note that I stated the tax office collects our tax some 8 hours before you erroneously claim I was incorrect. 

Of course, they collect it on behalf of the Scottish Government (who we ultimately pay it to).  Imagine the balls the Scottish Government would make of trying to collect it themselves. Wankers.

I see you have fallen for the "brexit disaster" propaganda.  A completely fact free opinion.  

Since brexit, we have achieved record exports to the EU.  Last month, the UK economy grew by 0.3%.  Modest, yes, but better than the Eurozone and also not in recession like France and Germany.

In the same month, the Scottish economy actually shrunk, because it is public sector heavy, ie full of incompetent, lazy, troughing c*nts.

So where is this "disastrous brexit" exactly?   Waiting an hour to get through passport control at the airport is a pain, yes, but its an artificial pain.  Its literally the only thing they (EU) can do to punish us for leaving and for our subsequent success, which they hate.

And I dont accept Westminster wastes more the  Holyrood.  Holyroods very existence is a waste:  25 years, and the best achievement it can hold up is baby boxes.

Untold billions for carboard boxes full of tat (an idea copied from elsewhere - of course) which studies have said made no difference to anything.  All holyrood has done is enrich the sub-mediocre people who serve as MSPs.

I voted for devolution, (as a naive student) but it has been a total failure.

 

[Simply Red]

6 minutes ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

Quite the diatribe, son.  🤣

This is the problem with Scottish nationalists: pointing out issues (like trying to ban something you cant even define) is always brushed off as "unionist propaganda".

 

😆

Diatribe, nationalism, propaganda

You being intentionally ironic there?

98% of your output is lengthy, right wing, british nationalist diatribe propaganda

“(like trying to ban something you cant even define)”

Ive no idea what this means because i pay little attention to politics of any kind let alone snp nonsense. Just because youre obsessed by it and dying to argue with someone about doesnt mean anyone else is.

Nothing any political party says or does will change my opinion that Scotland needs to be returned back to its natural independent state. 
 

[maryhilldon]

3 hours ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

Re income tax, note that I stated the tax office collects our tax some 8 hours before you erroneously claim I was incorrect. 

Of course, they collect it on behalf of the Scottish Government (who we ultimately pay it to).  Imagine the balls the Scottish Government would make of trying to collect it themselves. Wankers.

I see you have fallen for the "brexit disaster" propaganda.  A completely fact free opinion.  

Since brexit, we have achieved record exports to the EU.  Last month, the UK economy grew by 0.3%.  Modest, yes, but better than the Eurozone and also not in recession like France and Germany.

In the same month, the Scottish economy actually shrunk, because it is public sector heavy, ie full of incompetent, lazy, troughing c*nts.

So where is this "disastrous brexit" exactly?   Waiting an hour to get through passport control at the airport is a pain, yes, but its an artificial pain.  Its literally the only thing they (EU) can do to punish us for leaving and for our subsequent success, which they hate.

And I dont accept Westminster wastes more the  Holyrood.  Holyroods very existence is a waste:  25 years, and the best achievement it can hold up is baby boxes.

Untold billions for carboard boxes full of tat (an idea copied from elsewhere - of course) which studies have said made no difference to anything.  All holyrood has done is enrich the sub-mediocre people who serve as MSPs.

I voted for devolution, (as a naive student) but it has been a total failure.

 

NRT

[Jocky Balboa]

22 hours ago, CCB III said:

Should add that I think in general education should be free. 
 

Although, now, with the abundance of information available it is effectively free. 
 

You just don't get a piece of paper to show you know anything or how to apply it. 
 

Obviously, that's not true for all degrees, but it is for a good amount.  

Elaborating on my post from yesterday, I do think the old 'free at the point of use' system was a good one, for the students of today became the highly educated, highly trained and well-earning professionals of tomorrow, almost all of whom paid more tax, thus ensuring the system effectively paid for itself. However, that was when only the top 10-15% of school leavers went to university, when they were elite institutions designed to develop the best creative minds. Since the 90's (the Blair era in particular) the system has been flooded by people whom are not university material, but whom would have benefitted massively from a skilled trade, or a vocation, rather than a liberal arts "degree" with little to no real world value.

6 hours ago, Bad_Mobby said:

Where’s our oil wonga? 
 

Aberdeen should be the Dubai of North (full of similar arseholes, fair enough)  but it is the biggest shithole city in Jockland 

Stavanger, now there is a nice town! 

I think Jim Sillars nailed it when he said Scotland is "the only country in the world to discover oil and end up poorer", as we have fallen behind many similar sized democratic nations like the Scandinavian states, New Zealand, Austria and even the Republic of Ireland, in most measurable yardsticks. That said, it's equally notable Sillars and many like him want independence OUTSIDE of the EU, a la Norway, Iceland and Switzerland, for it's likely the EU (assuming it did want us as a member) would demand its pound of flesh from our oil and gas resources. Would we see much in return, or end up a net contributer? Debatable.

[sigh]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/02/cardiff-edinburgh-devolved-labour-leadership-union

its going to happen, maybe

[Jocky Balboa]

8 hours ago, sigh said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/02/cardiff-edinburgh-devolved-labour-leadership-union

its going to happen, maybe

At this stage, I think a United Ireland will happen before an independent Scotland, which says it all about the post-2015 SNP snatching defeat from the jaws of potential victory. The former has arguably been almost inevitable since the 2011 Census showed Catholics under 45 outnumbering Protestants, but confirmed by electoral results since 2017 (when Unionists lost their majority there).

That said, a United Ireland would provide additional challenges for Scotland's quest, as it may see an exodus of Hunnery from Co. Down and Co. Antrim, with certain delightful people setting up home in the West and bolstering the Loyalist vote in Scotland. 🤮

[For Fecks Sake]

See Matheson finally fell on his sword and resigned. Not good news for Humza and the SNP as by all accounts he was a very competent minister.