CWR

[Big Hat Logan]

Jimmy Calderwood once said that Aberdeen fans have unrealistic expectations. 

Was Calderwood Right? 
 

#CWR

[milne_afc]

No. That was a face saving exercise by a duplicitous Glaswegian. Aberdeen fans have high expectations, not unrealistic. Important to differentiate the narrative from the reality.

[Bebo]

No, he wasn't right. 
 

It's not an unrealistic expectation to believe Aberdeen with the 3rd largest wage and transfer budget should be around 3rd/4th and win the occasional cup. 
 

Calderwood and the Weegie media implied we were 'stuck in the 80's' as if we expected European cups

[aberdeen1970]

The narrative from some that think we have some divine right to finish 3rd every season is a bit tired.  Hearts and Hibs seem to be written off as idiots but they are doing some things better than us. 

There are also some who fail to grasp the image issue that we have as a club currently in terms of attracting a new manager. 

Most folk seem to be waking up to reality though. 

 

[For Fecks Sake]

5 minutes ago, milne_afc said:

No. That was a face saving exercise by a duplicitous Glaswegian. Aberdeen fans have high expectations, not unrealistic. Important to differentiate the narrative from the reality.

Fed up saying this to fans of the arse cheeks who cannot see the irony of berating other fans for apparently having too high expectations.

[ahead on alphabet]

In this day and age when budget is even more of a deciding factor than ever before, it's a fucking stupid question. 

[ab24_5qh]

If you went solely by the evidence of the Next Manager thread then it would be hard not to concede that he may have had a point.

[aberdeen1970]

Just now, ahead on alphabet said:

In this day and age when budget is even more of a deciding factor than ever before, it's a fucking stupid question. 

Hearts have a bigger wage budget than us.  I think Hibs might next season. 

And that's assuming we don't squander the money like we did this season. 

A big budget is fine but it's useless if you waste it. 

 

[dave_min]

Jimmy is God.

Dons fans are almost always wrong in everything they say.

It’s not unreasonable for us to expect that we avoid relegation.

[ahead on alphabet]

1 minute ago, aberdeen1970 said:

Hearts have a bigger wage budget than us.  I think Hibs might next season. 

And that's assuming we don't squander the money like we did this season. 

A big budget is fine but it's useless if you waste it. 

 

It is of course but that's not the point I'm trying to make. Regarding expectations, you should definitely expect your higher budget to see you higher than the rest below you.

We all take it for a given that the arse cheeks will be ahead generally due to their budget. They moan about the Euro elite that have bigger budgets, the fans of whom in turn will expect to be ahead of them and so on. 

What Bebo said is spot on. I definitely think Calderwood was implying that our expectations were that we thought we should be winning leagues and in Europe etc. And there's no fans left that think like that so it's a fucking stupid question in my opinion.

[aberdeen1970]

1 minute ago, ahead on alphabet said:

It is of course but that's not the point I'm trying to make. Regarding expectations, you should definitely expect your higher budget to see you higher than the rest below you.

We all take it for a given that the arse cheeks will be ahead generally due to their budget. They moan about the Euro elite that have bigger budgets, the fans of whom in turn will expect to be ahead of them and so on. 

What Bebo said is spot on. I definitely think Calderwood was implying that our expectations were that we thought we should be winning leagues and in Europe etc. And there's no fans left that think like that so it's a fucking stupid question in my opinion.

Aye I agree with that 

[NEM]

19 minutes ago, aberdeen1970 said:

The narrative from some that think we have some divine right to finish 3rd every season is a bit tired.  Hearts and Hibs seem to be written off as idiots but they are doing some things better than us. 

There are also some who fail to grasp the image issue that we have as a club currently in terms of attracting a new manager. 

Most folk seem to be waking up to reality though. 

 

Probably because in the main they are.  History doesn't lie - pair of tinpot yo-yo clubs

[S2RDS]

No he was 100% wrong. My expectation is always, every season, for us to challenge for the title and win a cup. That's not to say we can win them, but every single season and every single thing we do should be aimed at trying to achieve that. The worry for me at the club is do the managers, board and players share the same ambition.... well going by Jimmys comment they probably don't. You cant be the best if you dont aim to be the best.

Such comments to me, stink of mediocrity. We get third, no cups and everyone should be happy? what because our expectations are too high based on a managers own personal ambition and what he deems as success? Nah sorry. The fans will always and rightfully be the judges of that. 

The fact no one has won a title in almost 40 years outside of Rangers, Celtic and Sevco is a shambles. We could have and probably should have won one in 2016 and I dont think that was an unrealistic expectation at the time. 

[Donscanada]

I think 3 to 5 should be a realistic goal based on budget and gets you qualifiers for euro play. However, should one club outside old firms consistently get into euro group stages that could swing the power.   That is why it was so important that afc up ended hearts last year.

[Millertime]

47 minutes ago, milne_afc said:

No. That was a face saving exercise by a duplicitous Glaswegian. Aberdeen fans have high expectations, not unrealistic. Important to differentiate the narrative from the reality.

Sorry bruv,  Jimmy was spot on

[Millertime]

47 minutes ago, Bebo said:

No, he wasn't right. 
 

It's not an unrealistic expectation to believe Aberdeen with the 3rd largest wage and transfer budget should be around 3rd/4th and win the occasional cup. 
 

Calderwood and the Weegie media implied we were 'stuck in the 80's' as if we expected European cups

We were top 4 for 7 or 8 years, finishing 2nd more than 4th

In countless semis and finals up against one of if not the best celtic team of the last few decades, managed by a guy on £3M a year

That was deemed not good enough and THATS why people say we have unrealistic expectations 

It's undebateable

Check the nick of us now

[The Hulk]

I liked Jimmy Calderwood but he was wrong about this. He made a mis-step there due to his misunderstanding of the north-east psyche.

So let's look at this another way. He went to the same school as Willie Miller but then Willie Miller has lived in Aberdeen for 50+ years.  Does Willie Miller think Aberdeen fans have unrealistic expectations?

[brunstanesheep]

11 minutes ago, Millertime said:

We were top 4 for 7 or 8 years, finishing 2nd more than 4th

In countless semis and finals up against one of if not the best celtic team of the last few decades, managed by a guy on £3M a year

That was deemed not good enough and THATS why people say we have unrealistic expectations 

It's undebateable

Check the nick of us now

So you think after achieving expectations for 8 years in a row, that having the ambition to take that base and build on it and reach the next level was unrealistic?

[The Hulk]

5 minutes ago, brunstanesheep said:

So you think after achieving expectations for 8 years in a row, that having the ambition to take that base and build on it and reach the next level was unrealistic?

Be careful not to fall into this trap.  The expectations were met for about 5 years and then there was a drop off.  In year 6/7 there was grumbling but a majority view that it was a blip. In year 8 it was clear that it was a rut and change was needed. By this I'm saying I agree with you by the way.

There is a very easy counter to Old-Firm supporting people asserting that Aberdeen have unrealistic expectations.

[The Hulk]

FTH

[ab24_5qh]

Our average league positions (not rounded) over each decade:

1900's	8.1
1910's	11.8
1920's	9.5
1930's	4.8
1940's	8.5
1950's	8.6
1960's	8.5
1970's	3.4
1980's	2.5
1990's	5.4
2000's	6
2010's	4.5
2020's	5.6

 

 

[S2RDS]

9 minutes ago, The Hulk said:

I liked Jimmy Calderwood but he was wrong about this. He made a mis-step there due to his misunderstanding of the north-east psyche.

So let's look at this another way. He went to the same school as Willie Miller but then Willie Miller has lived in Aberdeen for 50+ years.  Does Willie Miller think Aberdeen fans have unrealistic expectations?

Miller always was and is a winner, and winners want to always win and set the highest bars for themselves. Calderwood accepted mediocrity as success, but was rightly hounded out because of it and subsequent bad appointments since haven't improved that situation.

You need to surround yourself with a winning mentality or mediocrity just bleeds into the club. You could argue Millers period of football was very different, but we are kidding ourselves if we don't believe that Rangers and Celtic in that period couldn't still attract the best players in the country. However, Aberdeen were a winning club, we had everything those two clubs didn't at the time and that's why we were successful.

We have gradually accepted that period was a "blip", then accepted that finishing 2nd and one cup was okay, then 3rd and no cups was okay, and now top 6 and an appearance in a final is okay. Years and years of mediocrity have led many of us to believe that even the McInnes era and Calderwood era were successful, and that we made mistakes in sacking those managers. I still believe and will always believe they were mediocre managers, and that with the right combination of winning manager mentality, siege mentality and winners as players, we can emulate domestic success.

Look at Celtic... they have spent millions and are they all that good for the money they have spent? Were they all that good in 2016? No, I dont think so, its because we cant see past those damn hoops. We dont have winners or winning mentality and it is why we capitulate against them. We have accepted mediocrity and our place as an outsider. 

[The Hulk]

16 minutes ago, S2RDS said:

Miller always was and is a winner, and winners want to always win and set the highest bars for themselves. Calderwood accepted mediocrity as success, but was rightly hounded out because of it and subsequent bad appointments since haven't improved that situation.

You need to surround yourself with a winning mentality or mediocrity just bleeds into the club. You could argue Millers period of football was very different, but we are kidding ourselves if we don't believe that Rangers and Celtic in that period couldn't still attract the best players in the country. However, Aberdeen were a winning club, we had everything those two clubs didn't at the time and that's why we were successful.

We have gradually accepted that period was a "blip", then accepted that finishing 2nd and one cup was okay, then 3rd and no cups was okay, and now top 6 and an appearance in a final is okay. Years and years of mediocrity have led many of us to believe that even the McInnes era and Calderwood era were successful, and that we made mistakes in sacking those managers. I still believe and will always believe they were mediocre managers, and that with the right combination of winning manager mentality, siege mentality and winners as players, we can emulate domestic success.

Look at Celtic... they have spent millions and are they all that good for the money they have spent? Were they all that good in 2016? No, I dont think so, its because we cant see past those damn hoops. We dont have winners or winning mentality and it is why we capitulate against them. We have accepted mediocrity and our place as an outsider. 

Good post.

It's very difficult not to equate Miller the footballer with Miller the person. I'm trying to say that Miller the person, a Glaswegian, knows and understands the north-east mentality because he has lived and experienced it.  Professional athletes need all to be winners because that's what it's all about.

And here's the thing; I don't think we have accepted mediocrity and I don't think we ever will.  We get this "know your place" crap rammed down our throats all the time from the west coast footballing majority.

Rangers fans have unrealistic expectations.  They have to win every game and sack their manager when they finish second. Celtic fans have unrealistic expectations. They are giving Rodgers pelters even when they're still top of the league.  Do we ever see anything written about Rangers or Celtic fans having unrealistic expectations? I can't remember ever seeing this.

People have different thresholds of what they find acceptable but in my view the general level for expectation at Aberdeen is perfectly fine. We want to be competitive at the right end of the league, take a scalp as often as possible, challenge for cups, and ideally be in Europe every year.

For a median league position since 1970 of 4.36 (good post above), we are entitled to expect to be top 4 and by being a top 4 team we should be in semi finals and finals and getting a win now and again. That is not unrealistic by any measure.

[At The Border Guy]

Loads of our fans are cunts, but even their expectations aren't unrealistic.

[ericblack4boss]

Let's be honest  in the early to mid 80s we had a unique  crop of talent, with a freak manager, it will never be repeated  but there is no reason  we can't look to be a well responsibly run club, looking  to bring in the best young  players in the country,  and having  a good talented scouting  network 

[Andy_123]

1 hour ago, Bebo said:

No, he wasn't right. 
 

It's not an unrealistic expectation to believe Aberdeen with the 3rd largest wage and transfer budget should be around 3rd/4th and win the occasional cup. 
 

Calderwood and the Weegie media implied we were 'stuck in the 80's' as if we expected European cups

The equivalent of us living in the 80's nowadays would be expecting to win the league / a cup every year, win / challenge for the Europa League (that would be today's equivalent competition to the CWC I think?) and also be the top ranked team in Europe for a while.

There's not a single Aberdeen fan anywhere who expects that.

You'd think someone would have publicly made a mockery of these weegie reptiles who continually claim we are all stuck in the 80's and have unrealistic expectations by now.

[Millertime]

1 hour ago, brunstanesheep said:

So you think after achieving expectations for 8 years in a row, that having the ambition to take that base and build on it and reach the next level was unrealistic?

Building on it doesn't mean appointing a worse manager

It means leaving the management alone and improving all the other things which to be fair to cormack, he has

[Millertime]

1 hour ago, S2RDS said:

Miller always was and is a winner, and winners want to always win and set the highest bars for themselves. Calderwood accepted mediocrity as success, but was rightly hounded out because of it and subsequent bad appointments since haven't improved that situation.

You need to surround yourself with a winning mentality or mediocrity just bleeds into the club. You could argue Millers period of football was very different, but we are kidding ourselves if we don't believe that Rangers and Celtic in that period couldn't still attract the best players in the country. However, Aberdeen were a winning club, we had everything those two clubs didn't at the time and that's why we were successful.

We have gradually accepted that period was a "blip", then accepted that finishing 2nd and one cup was okay, then 3rd and no cups was okay, and now top 6 and an appearance in a final is okay. Years and years of mediocrity have led many of us to believe that even the McInnes era and Calderwood era were successful, and that we made mistakes in sacking those managers. I still believe and will always believe they were mediocre managers, and that with the right combination of winning manager mentality, siege mentality and winners as players, we can emulate domestic success.

Look at Celtic... they have spent millions and are they all that good for the money they have spent? Were they all that good in 2016? No, I dont think so, its because we cant see past those damn hoops. We dont have winners or winning mentality and it is why we capitulate against them. We have accepted mediocrity and our place as an outsider. 

Yeah

You definitely know more than professionals, eh?

[strachanmcgheegoal]

People that say we have unrealistic expectations also tend to spout shite about Arse cheek sides being in "must win" games every week, people being careful what they wish for and my current favourite thats crept in, some pish about their strips being a heavy jersey to carry or some such.

Fuck right off.  

There is no reason we cant come comfortably 3rd-4th, be a presence in all cups - a draw to avoid if you like - and recognise Europe for the cash pot it is (relative to the uphill struggle 1st-2nd in this country is) and prepare ourselves with a strategy accordingly. 

That we dont is just how S2RDS puts it. Seeping complacency, then ineptitude and finally indifference.

 

[strachanmcgheegoal]

Its not just us of course.

I listened to some guffy crap in the car last week.  The discussion was essentially that Man City, Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool basically now start the season assuming one of the other three will go the season unbeaten and build for that scenario.  In essence to dominate before being dominated.

Funnily enough they then switched attention to Forrest and Everton, slagging them for spending too much.

I was reminded of the 2 Ronnies sketch - I look up to him etc etc.