CWR

[Millertime]

5 minutes ago, Dandyesque said:

But that was better than what Jimmy achieved, so he was wrong - we could do better and did.

League wise   yeah

But King Jimmy did some unreal things in Europe 

[Byrne Baby Byrne]

13 hours ago, Matt Armstrong's Dog said:

Open to interpretation my friend. 

We progressed by the Ukrainian dead club known as Dnipro on the old away goals rule under Calderwood. 

Lokomotiv Moscow weren't very good and that was a major opportunity missed to register a win. Panathinaikos weren't great that season either but we folded tamely to a 3-0 defeat in Greece.

Atletico Madrid were going through a transistional stage when we played which eventually resulted in them eventually winning the Europa League in 09/10 and 11/12, and latterly in 17/18. Whilst we played ok over there, they were a level above us which was reflected in the scoreline.

The Copenhagen game was one of those games when everything went right for us, especially in the second half, without playing particularly well. What we did that night though was thoroughly exploit the extremely weak attitude of the Copenhagen players after Jamie Smith scored his first goal of the match just after half-time.

We did well to progress, albeit in bizarre fashion after winning only 1 out of 4 group games. Realistically, a team wouldn't normally progress in a competition with such a record.

We took advantage of Bayern's complacency at Pittodrie as Hitzfeld and his players thought they just simply needed to turn up and win.

Over there, I actually thought we played better against them than at home and the 5-1 scoreline flattered Bayern, who were beat by the eventual winners of the tournament Zenit 👍 in the next round IIRC. Bayern were ruthless that night and although Darren Mackie's goal should not have been chopped off (which would have made it 2-1 to Bayern at that juncture of the away tie), consequently our heads went down and they brutally capitalised on that.

Fucking hell. 
 

you are a wrong un. But you aren’t alone. Aberdeen have achieved very little in the last 35 seasons, but there seems to be some desperation to shit on the few things we have done well in that time. Why? Are you just miserable?

dnipro the dead club who reached the Europa league final a few years later. Zero chance this dons team progress past them. 
 

lokomotiv weren’t very good. Aye just shite like ivanovic, Bilyaletdinov & odemwingie in that team. Would never get in a dons team. 
 

Aye panathinaikos the champions league regulars and one of the biggest teams in Greece. Mental we didn’t beat them. 
 

atletico team was unreal 😂.  Forlan, aguero, motta, Garcia, maxi, maniche. 
 

then yes, probably the most impressive result from Aberdeen in the last 3 decades was just because everything went right for us and we merely took advantage of a bayern team full of World Cup winners cause they were complacent. 
 

why do you even support Aberdeen if that’s your reaction to that European run? 

[Millertime]

14 hours ago, Matt Armstrong's Dog said:

Open to interpretation my friend. 

We progressed by the Ukrainian dead club known as Dnipro on the old away goals rule under Calderwood. 

Lokomotiv Moscow weren't very good and that was a major opportunity missed to register a win. Panathinaikos weren't great that season either but we folded tamely to a 3-0 defeat in Greece.

Atletico Madrid were going through a transistional stage when we played which eventually resulted in them eventually winning the Europa League in 09/10 and 11/12, and latterly in 17/18. Whilst we played ok over there, they were a level above us which was reflected in the scoreline.

The Copenhagen game was one of those games when everything went right for us, especially in the second half, without playing particularly well. What we did that night though was thoroughly exploit the extremely weak attitude of the Copenhagen players after Jamie Smith scored his first goal of the match just after half-time.

We did well to progress, albeit in bizarre fashion after winning only 1 out of 4 group games. Realistically, a team wouldn't normally progress in a competition with such a record.

We took advantage of Bayern's complacency at Pittodrie as Hitzfeld and his players thought they just simply needed to turn up and win.

Over there, I actually thought we played better against them than at home and the 5-1 scoreline flattered Bayern, who were beat by the eventual winners of the tournament Zenit 👍 in the next round IIRC. Bayern were ruthless that night and although Darren Mackie's goal should not have been chopped off (which would have made it 2-1 to Bayern at that juncture of the away tie), consequently our heads went down and they brutally capitalised on that.

That's genuinely, considering you spent so much time typing it out, one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read

Anywhere 

[Millertime]

1 hour ago, Byrne Baby Byrne said:

Fucking hell. 
 

you are a wrong un. But you aren’t alone. Aberdeen have achieved very little in the last 35 seasons, but there seems to be some desperation to shit on the few things we have done well in that time. Why? Are you just miserable?

dnipro the dead club who reached the Europa league final a few years later. Zero chance this dons team progress past them. 
 

lokomotiv weren’t very good. Aye just shite like ivanovic, Bilyaletdinov & odemwingie in that team. Would never get in a dons team. 
 

Aye panathinaikos the champions league regulars and one of the biggest teams in Greece. Mental we didn’t beat them. 
 

atletico team was unreal 😂.  Forlan, aguero, motta, Garcia, maxi, maniche. 
 

then yes, probably the most impressive result from Aberdeen in the last 3 decades was just because everything went right for us and we merely took advantage of a bayern team full of World Cup winners cause they were complacent. 
 

why do you even support Aberdeen if that’s your reaction to that European run? 

Spot on

You and I should be gunn and burrows 

See the main thing they get wrong?

It's calling out shite like this guy posted 

 

[Dandyesque]

4 hours ago, Millertime said:

League wise   yeah

But King Jimmy did some unreal things in Europe 

Robson's group stage results probably would have seen us qualify back then to be fair - you only had to not finish bottom if I remember right.

[donswin1983]

15 hours ago, Millertime said:

I know you know already, but I'll say it anyway 

How a team does over a 20-plus year period is a good barometer of how good they are, generally

Mcinnes then calderwood have been the best 2 of that period, yet they get the most grief and constantly get slagged off

Whys that?

Because somehow they are accused of not doing well enough 

They've done amazingly considering the Shite before and after them

The only yardstick for not doing well would be, what?

Ding ding ding

Yep, the 80s

Sasssssssssh

‘Amazingly well’ is pushing it, min. DMC won the LC and should’ve won an SC in the same season. League performance was good too, over his tenure.  I think DMC is the best manager we’ve had since, Alex Smith. Some good times. Never in a great class, regardless of fan expectations.   Jimmy C was at the helm for some embarrassing cup results and i will never forgive him for McNamara and the QOTS semi. 
they are the best in the last 20 odd years, undoubtedly, but it’s a low bar. Drunks, over promoted people and ‘projects’ being the others they were up against. 

the bottom line is we’ve massively underachieved as a club, given others that have won trophies. It’s a fucking joke that our haul since 1995, is 2 league cups..

We’ve had one great manager, but that was in the 80’s.

[Byrne Baby Byrne]

4 hours ago, Dandyesque said:

Robson's group stage results probably would have seen us qualify back then to be fair - you only had to not finish bottom if I remember right.

You had to finish in the top 3 in a group of 5. In the actual Europa league, not a third tier competition.  
 

We finished above lokomotiv and copenhagen. 

[Matt Armstrong's Dog]

13 hours ago, Byrne Baby Byrne said:

Fucking hell. 
 

you are a wrong un. But you aren’t alone. Aberdeen have achieved very little in the last 35 seasons, but there seems to be some desperation to shit on the few things we have done well in that time. Why? Are you just miserable?

dnipro the dead club who reached the Europa league final a few years later. Zero chance this dons team progress past them. 
 

lokomotiv weren’t very good. Aye just shite like ivanovic, Bilyaletdinov & odemwingie in that team. Would never get in a dons team. 
 

Aye panathinaikos the champions league regulars and one of the biggest teams in Greece. Mental we didn’t beat them. 
 

atletico team was unreal 😂.  Forlan, aguero, motta, Garcia, maxi, maniche. 
 

then yes, probably the most impressive result from Aberdeen in the last 3 decades was just because everything went right for us and we merely took advantage of a bayern team full of World Cup winners cause they were complacent. 
 

why do you even support Aberdeen if that’s your reaction to that European run? 

Don't you ever fucking dare question my support, love, and passion for Aberdeen Football Club. And do not question my integrity either. 🤬

Ironically, going by what some posters were saying about and backing up Jimmy Calderwood's comments about our supporters having unrealistic expectations, I was realistically and factually putting over my take on his unnecessary comments,  which I have done in a few posts now on the subject.

One of JC's backers, on here, commented about our win against Eintracht Franfurt at Pittodrie this season was irrelevant as the opposition had fielded a "reserve" team against us.

I remember when we played Bayern Munich at Pittodrie in 2008, they fielded a side mixed with first team regulars and fringe players. It was still quite an accomplishment we got a 2-2 draw with them, considering the likes of Miroslav Klose, Luca Toni, Lucio, Bastian Schweinsteiger, and Martin Demichelis started for Bayern that night. Whilst Phillip Lahm came on as a sub in the second half, they were still missing the likes of renowned first team regulars Kahn, Ribery, Robben, and Mark van Bommel.

Ottmar Hitzfeld and Lahm were very vocal about the poor standard of Aberdeen and they would easily get through after we were drawn against them, so if that's not complacency, then what is?🤔

The dead club Dnipro reached the Europa League 8 years later and by that time several members of the team that faced Aberdeen in 2007 were long gone from their club. Your attempt to patronise me with your Dnipro comment is embarrassing.

That particular Panathinaikos side weren't very good, regardless of them being perennially in European club tournaments. The name of the club doesn't automatically mean they are great. The Greek Superleague is not the greatest in Europe, hence why the likes of AEK, Panathinaikos, Olympiakos, and, latterly, PAOK completely dominate where the national league title goes.

You think what you like about the Panathinaikos side of 2007-08 which got knocked out of the EL in the last 32 by RFC, who in truth were incredibly fortunate to get to final of the competition that season. However I won't resort to disparaging your comments.

I have already given a fair and reasonable appraisal of Atletico Madrid in my previous post. By the way, you missed out (in another attempt to decry my points) their best and most consistent player, Mariano Pernia, who was brilliant for them throughout his time with the club and was MotM against us in Madrid.

Lokomotiv were very beatable. End of. The 3 players you highlight don't make a football team after all. Odemwingie's attitude exceeded his ability. Bilyanetidinov was more known for giving our supporters in the South Stand the bird/middle finger other than anything else achieved in his career. That speaks volumes. Branislav Ivanovic had a very successful career after leaving Lokomotiv.

"No desperation to shit on" a subject which you perceive to be not open to debate but have resorted to uncalled-for questioning of my support for AFC to make your "point".

I, like any other poster on here, can make comments based on observations, facts, and evidence (which I've had the audacity to do so it seems on this particular subject) or go by ill-founded prejudice, bias, feelings, and emotions.

By the way.......

Where you in Dnepropetrovsk or Olomouc to show your support for AFC?

Where you in attendance when only 100 to 150 supporters would travel the length and breadth of the country to get behind our team away from home towards the end of Calderwood's time when thousands of fans had turned their backs on the club after being beat by Queen of the South in the SC semi-final in 2008, during the dark days of Mark McGhee's reign, and Craig Brown's 2+ years tenure?

One last thing, have you ever been to every league game, home and away, in a season?

 

[Matt Armstrong's Dog]

11 hours ago, Millertime said:

That's genuinely, considering you spent so much time typing it out, one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read

Anywhere 

Thanks.👍

[Big Hat Logan]

8 minutes ago, Matt Armstrong's Dog said:

Don't you ever fucking dare question my support, love, and passion for Aberdeen Football Club. And do not question my integrity either. 🤬

Ironically, going by what some posters were saying about and backing up Jimmy Calderwood's comments about our supporters having unrealistic expectations, I was realistically and factually putting over my take on his unnecessary comments,  which I have done in a few posts now on the subject.

One of JC's backers, on here, commented about our win against Eintracht Franfurt at Pittodrie this season was irrelevant as the opposition had fielded a "reserve" team against us.

I remember when we played Bayern Munich at Pittodrie in 2008, they fielded a side mixed with first team regulars and fringe players. It was still quite an accomplishment we got a 2-2 draw with them, considering the likes of Miroslav Klose, Luca Toni, Lucio, Bastian Schweinsteiger, and Martin Demichelis started for Bayern that night. Whilst Phillip Lahm came on as a sub in the second half, they were still missing the likes of renowned first team regulars Kahn, Ribery, Robben, and Mark van Bommel.

Ottmar Hitzfeld and Lahm were very vocal about the poor standard of Aberdeen and they would easily get through after we were drawn against them, so if that's not complacency, then what is?🤔

The dead club Dnipro reached the Europa League 8 years later and by that time several members of the team that faced Aberdeen in 2007 were long gone from their club. Your attempt to patronise me with your Dnipro comment is embarrassing.

That particular Panathinaikos side weren't very good, regardless of them being perennially in European club tournaments. The name of the club doesn't automatically mean they are great. The Greek Superleague is not the greatest in Europe, hence why the likes of AEK, Panathinaikos, Olympiakos, and, latterly, PAOK completely dominate where the national league title goes.

You think what you like about the Panathinaikos side of 2007-08 which got knocked out of the EL in the last 32 by RFC, who in truth were incredibly fortunate to get to final of the competition that season. However I won't resort to disparaging your comments.

I have already given a fair and reasonable appraisal of Atletico Madrid in my previous post. By the way, you missed out (in another attempt to decry my points) their best and most consistent player, Mariano Pernia, who was brilliant for them throughout his time with the club and was MotM against us in Madrid.

Lokomotiv were very beatable. End of. The 3 players you highlight don't make a football team after all. Odemwingie's attitude exceeded his ability. Bilyanetidinov was more known for giving our supporters in the South Stand the bird/middle finger other than anything else achieved in his career. That speaks volumes. Branislav Ivanovic had a very successful career after leaving Lokomotiv.

"No desperation to shit on" a subject which you perceive to be not open to debate but have resorted to uncalled-for questioning of my support for AFC to make your "point".

I, like any other poster on here, can make comments based on observations, facts, and evidence (which I've had the audacity to do so it seems on this particular subject) or go by ill-founded prejudice, bias, feelings, and emotions.

By the way.......

Where you in Dnepropetrovsk or Olomouc to show your support for AFC?

Where you in attendance when only 100 to 150 supporters would travel the length and breadth of the country to get behind our team away from home towards the end of Calderwood's time when thousands of fans had turned their backs on the club after being beat by Queen of the South in the SC semi-final in 2008, during the dark days of Mark McGhee's reign, and Craig Brown's 2+ years tenure?

One last thing, have you ever been to every league game, home and away, in a season?

 

“I’ve been to more games than you”

The boast of an utter virgin 

[Big Hat Logan]

I’m not sure what people are so angry about, you really can’t deny that Dnipro, Copenhagen and Bayern are not some of the best results we’ve had in Europe in “recent” times. Calderwood was well backed and brought some really good players to the club but also signed some really terrible players. It was really imbalanced and when McGhee took over he had nothing to spend and a squad that needed cleared out. JC left a total mess in that regard.

However, going back to the original question, do AFC fans have unrealistic expectations? I think some do. 

 

[strachanmcgheegoal]

And others think they/we don’t.  Not getting your point here BHL.

[Matt Armstrong's Dog]

52 minutes ago, Big Hat Logan said:

“I’ve been to more games than you”

The boast of an utter virgin 

That's not I said or implied. I simply asked valid questions of someone questioning why I support AFC as well as responding to his comments in his post. 

The ignorance of a fucking oaf.

[Matt Armstrong's Dog]

51 minutes ago, Big Hat Logan said:

I’m not sure what people are so angry about, you really can’t deny that Dnipro, Copenhagen and Bayern are not some of the best results we’ve had in Europe in “recent” times. Calderwood was well backed and brought some really good players to the club but also signed some really terrible players. It was really imbalanced and when McGhee took over he had nothing to spend and a squad that needed cleared out. JC left a total mess in that regard.

However, going back to the original question, do AFC fans have unrealistic expectations? I think some do. 

 

A very definitive, conclusive, and persuasive argument.

[Byrne Baby Byrne]

4 hours ago, Matt Armstrong's Dog said:

Don't you ever fucking dare question my support, love, and passion for Aberdeen Football Club. And do not question my integrity either. 🤬

Ironically, going by what some posters were saying about and backing up Jimmy Calderwood's comments about our supporters having unrealistic expectations, I was realistically and factually putting over my take on his unnecessary comments,  which I have done in a few posts now on the subject.

One of JC's backers, on here, commented about our win against Eintracht Franfurt at Pittodrie this season was irrelevant as the opposition had fielded a "reserve" team against us.

I remember when we played Bayern Munich at Pittodrie in 2008, they fielded a side mixed with first team regulars and fringe players. It was still quite an accomplishment we got a 2-2 draw with them, considering the likes of Miroslav Klose, Luca Toni, Lucio, Bastian Schweinsteiger, and Martin Demichelis started for Bayern that night. Whilst Phillip Lahm came on as a sub in the second half, they were still missing the likes of renowned first team regulars Kahn, Ribery, Robben, and Mark van Bommel.

Ottmar Hitzfeld and Lahm were very vocal about the poor standard of Aberdeen and they would easily get through after we were drawn against them, so if that's not complacency, then what is?🤔

The dead club Dnipro reached the Europa League 8 years later and by that time several members of the team that faced Aberdeen in 2007 were long gone from their club. Your attempt to patronise me with your Dnipro comment is embarrassing.

That particular Panathinaikos side weren't very good, regardless of them being perennially in European club tournaments. The name of the club doesn't automatically mean they are great. The Greek Superleague is not the greatest in Europe, hence why the likes of AEK, Panathinaikos, Olympiakos, and, latterly, PAOK completely dominate where the national league title goes.

You think what you like about the Panathinaikos side of 2007-08 which got knocked out of the EL in the last 32 by RFC, who in truth were incredibly fortunate to get to final of the competition that season. However I won't resort to disparaging your comments.

I have already given a fair and reasonable appraisal of Atletico Madrid in my previous post. By the way, you missed out (in another attempt to decry my points) their best and most consistent player, Mariano Pernia, who was brilliant for them throughout his time with the club and was MotM against us in Madrid.

Lokomotiv were very beatable. End of. The 3 players you highlight don't make a football team after all. Odemwingie's attitude exceeded his ability. Bilyanetidinov was more known for giving our supporters in the South Stand the bird/middle finger other than anything else achieved in his career. That speaks volumes. Branislav Ivanovic had a very successful career after leaving Lokomotiv.

"No desperation to shit on" a subject which you perceive to be not open to debate but have resorted to uncalled-for questioning of my support for AFC to make your "point".

I, like any other poster on here, can make comments based on observations, facts, and evidence (which I've had the audacity to do so it seems on this particular subject) or go by ill-founded prejudice, bias, feelings, and emotions.

By the way.......

Where you in Dnepropetrovsk or Olomouc to show your support for AFC?

Where you in attendance when only 100 to 150 supporters would travel the length and breadth of the country to get behind our team away from home towards the end of Calderwood's time when thousands of fans had turned their backs on the club after being beat by Queen of the South in the SC semi-final in 2008, during the dark days of Mark McGhee's reign, and Craig Brown's 2+ years tenure?

One last thing, have you ever been to every league game, home and away, in a season?

 

Bloody hell!!!! 
 

I won’t say anything back against these comments. As it seems you are on the edge. 
 

clearly you are a top dons fan and if you need to call the Samaritans let it be known the hat are here for you x

[Big Hat Logan]

4 hours ago, strachanmcgheegoal said:

And others think they/we don’t.  Not getting your point here BHL.

That some do 🤷🏻‍♂️

3 hours ago, Matt Armstrong's Dog said:

That's not I said or implied. I simply asked valid questions of someone questioning why I support AFC as well as responding to his comments in his post. 

The ignorance of a fucking oaf.

Nah you’re using it as a weird flex, Superfan

3 hours ago, Matt Armstrong's Dog said:

A very definitive, conclusive, and persuasive argument.

Status: extremely rattled 

[Just Dandy]

On 3/29/2024 at 10:47 AM, milne_afc said:

No. That was a face saving exercise by a duplicitous Glaswegian.

Wi a face like Jimmy Calderwood, you'd think he'd just let it drown.

[Matt Armstrong's Dog]

15 hours ago, Byrne Baby Byrne said:

Bloody hell!!!! 
 

I won’t say anything back against these comments. As it seems you are on the edge. 
 

clearly you are a top dons fan and if you need to call the Samaritans let it be known the hat are here for you x

Thank you, Sir.👍

The Hat can be very helpful and therapeutic to get things off one's chest and de-stress.😉

[NEM]

On 3/30/2024 at 1:33 PM, Millertime said:

You're contradicting yourself 

How can you not see it?

In the last 20 plus years,  calderwood and mcinnes did really well

Compared to the 80s, no, they didn't, but as I keep trying to explain to you and most others, we aren't in the bloody 80s anymore

Move on, it's embarrassing 

LOL

[Millertime]

9 minutes ago, NEM said:

LOL

Sorry, I only engage in full dialogue with gold members

[Dynamo]

How many cars do you have in your drive?

[Shinniesta]

On 3/29/2024 at 11:35 PM, Byrne Baby Byrne said:

“Regardless of opposition” 

😂

I think it’s more than relevant you dumpling. 
 

personal thoughts - I was a fan of JC. And in the last 30 years he’s easily in our top 2 managers. 
 

do Aberdeen fans expect to much? Some - definitely. Overall, I don’t think so. I think Aberdeen, hearts and Hibs massively underachieve. You’d think one of us at some point would have a season where we beat the shite teams regularly and hold our own in Glasgow. Just in 1 season out of like 10. But no, it absolutely never happens. 
 

no matter the team, manager, owner - you just get to a stage where you’ve seen it all and it’s absolutely shite every time. Have I reached that age already? Perhaps!

 

🍺

Do Aberdeen, Hearts & Hibs massively underachieve though? Because apart from a couple of fleeting eras in Scottish football when budget differences were nothing like they are today it's always been dominated by two clubs.

As a example since Aberdeen were formed in 1903 Hearts & Hibs have won a mere 18 major trophies between them in those 121 years. As a comparison Celtic have won 21 major trophies in just the last 10 years alone. If those clubs couldn't compete with them in eras where tv money, CL prize money & sponsorship weren't factors how on earth can they possibly expect to do it now? 

Its not unrealistic to expect Aberdeen to challenge for 3rd place/european football every season, win the odd domestic cup, and give the Glasgow two a bloody nose more frequently than we currently do. Those are realistic expectations for Hibs & Hearts too. But to expect a title challenge (even once every 10 or 20 years) from any club outside those two isn't realistic in the modern game. The stats back that up no club outside of the Glasgow two have come remotely close to winning the league since 1991. That's not a coincidence. Football has changed a lot since 91. 

[zeroisgod76]

On 3/31/2024 at 7:14 AM, donswin1983 said:

the bottom line is we’ve massively underachieved as a club, given others that have won trophies. It’s a fucking joke that our haul since 1995, is 2 league cups..

For those that lived through it we were completely spoiled by the Fergie era, outwith this though we've won 9 trophies in the other 114 years of our history. Pretty much averaging a trophy every 13 years. 

We're not massively underachieving at all. Outside of the Glasgow bigots no club in Scotland is ever going to regularly win trophies. Hearts have won 3 trophies in 60 years, Hibs 4 in 70 years. 

In the 38 years since Fergie went to Manchester United Celtic and Rangers (old and new) have won 89 domestic trophies between them out of 114. The game in Scotland is a bust unless those 2 ever bugger off (fingers crossed).

[Jocky Balboa]

On 3/31/2024 at 1:31 PM, Big Hat Logan said:

I’m not sure what people are so angry about, you really can’t deny that Dnipro, Copenhagen and Bayern are not some of the best results we’ve had in Europe in “recent” times. Calderwood was well backed and brought some really good players to the club but also signed some really terrible players. It was really imbalanced and when McGhee took over he had nothing to spend and a squad that needed cleared out. JC left a total mess in that regard.

However, going back to the original question, do AFC fans have unrealistic expectations? I think some do. 

 

Yes, those European results were fantastic. They do however highlight the inconsistency of the Calderwood era. While McInnes was accused of being a 'big game bottler', Calderwood regularly failed to get the best out of the team in games where we were favourites, evidenced by losing to lower league opposition in the cups three times in as many years, or being hammered 4-1 by Dundee Utd in the other semi-final. He moulded a team in his image; interesting and capable of occasionally punching well above its weight, but prone to bottling important games we should have wrapped up. As a player, he was good, but never great. Happy to cruise along and, by his own admission, he "judged his success not on the trophies he won, but on who he played with". As a manager he reflected this; happy to name drop "wee Barry" and "big Boydy" and mix it up with them, but never really aspire to threaten the natural order of things. 

While McGhee clearly failed, not enough ask WHY this was the case, despite punching well above his weight with Motherwell (remember, he was a candidate for Celtic and before that, Hearts and allegedly Scotland) and did well in England. Certainly a far more successful manager than Calderwood overall. He simply inherited a complete shambles, full of lazy underachievers who deemed "top 6 every year" as an achievement. My point is, the whole culture at the Club needed to change, but too many focussed on the manager's position and not enough on behind the scenes. We are where we are for similar reasons.

[Shinniesta]

1 hour ago, zeroisgod76 said:

For those that lived through it we were completely spoiled by the Fergie era, outwith this though we've won 9 trophies in the other 114 years of our history. Pretty much averaging a trophy every 13 years. 

We're not massively underachieving at all. Outside of the Glasgow bigots no club in Scotland is ever going to regularly win trophies. Hearts have won 3 trophies in 60 years, Hibs 4 in 70 years. 

In the 38 years since Fergie went to Manchester United Celtic and Rangers (old and new) have won 89 domestic trophies between them out of 114. The game in Scotland is a bust unless those 2 ever bugger off (fingers crossed).

You are slightly out with your count the bigot brothers have actually won 87 out of the 111 available domestic trophies since Fergie left in November 86. Of the 24 trophies not won by them in that period Aberdeen have won the most of any other club (4) followed by Hibs, St Johnstone & Hearts (3 apiece), St Mirren, Killie & Dundee Utd (2 apiece) then it's Livi, Raith, ICT, Ross County & Motherwell with 1 trophy each. 
 

It's very grim reading for all the clubs outwith the bigot brothers. I would say we have underachieved slightly by not winning a few more of the 24 trophies they didn't win. We really should have won the SC in both 08 & 14 but screwed up royally on both occasions. But apart from that when you look at the sheer dominance of the Glasgow two over the rest it's a stretch for anyone to say we have massively underachieved.

 

 

 

[Byrne Baby Byrne]

12 minutes ago, Jocky Balboa said:

Yes, those European results were fantastic. They do however highlight the inconsistency of the Calderwood era. While McInnes was accused of being a 'big game bottler', Calderwood regularly failed to get the best out of the team in games where we were favourites, evidenced by losing to lower league opposition in the cups three times in as many years, or being hammered 4-1 by Dundee Utd in the other semi-final. He moulded a team in his image; interesting and capable of occasionally punching well above its weight, but prone to bottling important games we should have wrapped up. As a player, he was good, but never great. Happy to cruise along and, by his own admission, he "judged his success not on the trophies he won, but on who he played with". As a manager he reflected this; happy to name drop "wee Barry" and "big Boydy" and mix it up with them, but never really aspire to threaten the natural order of things. 

While McGhee clearly failed, not enough ask WHY this was the case, despite punching well above his weight with Motherwell (remember, he was a candidate for Celtic and before that, Hearts and allegedly Scotland) and did well in England. Certainly a far more successful manager than Calderwood overall. He simply inherited a complete shambles, full of lazy underachievers who deemed "top 6 every year" as an achievement. My point is, the whole culture at the Club needed to change, but too many focussed on the manager's position and not enough on behind the scenes. We are where we are for similar reasons.

if McGhee was a bit more humble he might have got more out of the team. There were still good players here. But they all turned on him cause 1) he was a wanker and 2) they were shite bags for sure. Much like the current squad. 
 

he did a good job the season he had Motherwell finish 3rd. But the season we appointed him I’m pretty sure they finished 7th. So was hardly punching well above his weight. Stuart McCall had Motherwell 2nd / 3rd about three seasons in a row