Hillsborough 20 Years On

[bruceg1978]

The first and arguably biggest mistake of the lot was having the game at Hillsborough at all - it was simply unable to cope with a game of that magnitude and should never have been selected for a semi-final. Almost unimaginably in these H&S obsessive times, the safety certificate for the ground (the ENTIRE ground, FFS!) had expired ten years previously and had never been reviewed. This is why, of the 40-odd ambulances which turned up at the Liverpool-Forest game, only 3 got into the stadium and only one (I think) got onto the pitch.

 

The whole thing was a catalogue of tragic incompetence from start to finish, and fully merits the JFT96 campaign's efforts. This is abundantly NOT about mawkish Scousers indulging in a grief-a-thon; there were real, serious mistakes made by the authorities which have never been officially acknowledged, far less apologised for.

 

If Notts Forest was sectioned in the Leppings lane end and Liverpool in the other end then this terrible tragedy may never have occured. The leppings lane end was far smaller but Police ordered the Liverpool fans to be sectioned in this area to ease the security issues outside the ground.

[Guest stoney]

Suppose its all about opinions but what do you know about Liverpool or English football fans at that time or that day? What you've read in some hooly book somewhere? I'm older than you and being honest despite reading lots of material on this incident and with vague rememberance of it happening at the time I cannot possibly begin to understand the sequence of events that happened that day.

 

I think your understanding of the situation is totally wrong in all counts (could be mine therefore why I disagree with everything you've said in this thread), not least the giving families closure aspect, its the families of the people that lost their lives that ask those still attending games to maintain the pressure for Justice for their families, hence the banners and memorial services, all the rest of it.

 

Well you could be right, maybe you are old enough to remember when football fans could behave themselves and there were no need for 10ft fences and mass police presence at games, a time where football fans left the house in the morning and came back without being beaten up or slashed in an alley.

 

Hillsbrough was the wake up call that changed the game for the better and ensured that no other innocent fans would be killed at a football match, surely that is justice in its self?

[Old Wing Stand]

Have to agree with Stoney here the behaviour of football fans at the time has to be question also the reputation of Liverpool fans I worked down in Liverpool at the time of the Heysel disaster and some Scousers I worked with were proud of what happened that night.

[vanderark14]

There were also loud cheers and clapping for a group of Celtic fans who laid two banners on the Anfield turf emblazoned with "Justice for the 96" and "You'll never walk alone".

 

 

 

from sky sports

[Guest stoney]

some good comments on here

 

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/article.aspx?cp-...mentid=16099919

[PG Don]

Like i said in my orignal post, if it wasnt hillsbrough it would have been the week after, Liverpool fans are always banging on about justice, im sure *and i have heard quotes before you start* that the wishes of the families were to make sure this never happened again, It hasnt since hillsbrough the safety record at football stadiums has changed dramitically, lessons were learned and mistakes rectified, why cant liverpool fans let those who died rest in peace?

 

and please remember i dont think of the 96 as liverpool fans or football fans i think of them as human beings who attended a match and should have come home to their families at the end of the day.

 

96 Died who shouldnt have but like i say there were faults on all sides maybe not on that particular day, but there were faults on all sides.

 

Its time to let these people and the families have some closure seeing banners still being unfurled at football matches "Justice" cant be helping being reminded of this terrible terrible accident.

 

RIP

 

 

I'm going to offer these specifics, and then I'm going to shut up.

 

I'm quoting from this, which anyone with an interest in this tragedy should read:

 

I have no doubt that the response of the police that day was hugely coloured by the fact that football fans - all football fans - were perceived either as causing trouble, or about to cause trouble. How anyone could imagine that penning people inside steel cages was going to be a safe or reasonable thing to do is beyond me, but that's what happened.

 

To the specifics - on the notion of 'ticketless fans'; here are some facts:

Police Federation Officer Paul Middup, when interviewed by ITV, stated

that

[Dynamo]

No one should go to the football and nae come home. Why was the gate opened outside btw? Just seems the Liverpool fans here are being painted whiter than white. 3 years previously it was their rioting which caused 39 Italians to lose their life remember.

 

Rip.

[tutankamun]

No one should go to the football and nae come home. Why was the gate opened outside btw? Just seems the Liverpool fans here are being painted whiter than white. 3 years previously it was their rioting which caused 39 Italians to lose their life remember.

 

Rip.

 

Good point. The Hillsborough disaster was horrible but no more horrible than Heysel or the Valley Parade fire disaster.

 

Do they have a Heysel memorial in Italy?

 

Also, do we have a Valley Parade memorial??

[exiled_in_fife]

Good point. The Hillsborough disaster was horrible but no more horrible than Heysel or the Valley Parade fire disaster.

 

Do they have a Heysel memorial in Italy?

 

Also, do we have a Valley Parade memorial??

 

We as in who? Surely its up to Bradford to arrange as Liverpool do re Hillsborough if they want to?

 

Watched it today and thought it was sh

[exiled_in_fife]

Well you could be right, maybe you are old enough to remember when football fans could behave themselves and there were no need for 10ft fences and mass police presence at games, a time where football fans left the house in the morning and came back without being beaten up or slashed in an alley.

 

Hillsbrough was the wake up call that changed the game for the better and ensured that no other innocent fans would be killed at a football match, surely that is justice in its self?

 

If you had a son or daughter killed at Hillsborough you'd want more than shiny all seater stadiums mate. The justice relates to the family feeling that the cops were badly at fault. They have spent hours after hours, now 20 years, wanting justice for their family, by that someone to accept the police were wrong. I understand that was done today, to me and you its meaningless now, its 20 years, most of the cops in service no longer are. To the family and people from Liverpool its important though.

[minijc]

Caught a bit on the news where the jeered and booed the sports minester guy, felt sorry for him as most of the folk giving him abuse were not even around when it happened and it just made the whole think look like an excuse to pass the buck.

[OneZanderDiamond]

In other news a memorial service was held for the 17 men who lost their lives just off the North East coast only two weeks ago yet almost no national coverage.

 

Strange.

[minijc]

Aye, mainyl because it was only 16.

[OneZanderDiamond]

Aye, mainyl because it was only 16.

 

The minister said 17 as the other guy who died in an unrelated incident was quite rightly remembered as well.

 

While Hillsborough was a tragedy it's time to move on. The helicopter crash was just a fortnight ago.

[barassie_afc]

The minister said 17 as the other guy who died in an unrelated incident was quite rightly remembered as well.

 

While Hillsborough was a tragedy it's time to move on. The helicopter crash was just a fortnight ago.

 

 

its a fair point to be honest there has hardly been any coverage of the crash relative to other shxte like jade goody

[forbesz1903]

The memorial service did get a mention on radio 1 news at 10, did say however that it was for victims of helicopter crash and not the unrelated incident though.

[minijc]

True, I'm with you here actually, Liverpool love a good bit of mock sympathy, I heard that next seasons Liverpool strip will have a black arm band printed on it to safe them the hassle.

[exiled_in_fife]

In other news a memorial service was held for the 17 men who lost their lives just off the North East coast only two weeks ago yet almost no national coverage.

 

Strange.

 

It was on national news and radio, how much more national would you like it to get?

[OneZanderDiamond]

True, I'm with you here actually, Liverpool love a good bit of mock sympathy, I heard that next seasons Liverpool strip will have a black arm band printed on it to safe them the hassle.

 

I know you're on the wind up but your not that far off. Remember the dead chicken foetus!

 

It was on national news and radio, how much more national would you like it to get?

 

I switched on the ITV news after the football and they'd been broadcasting live from Anfield and finished the show with You'll Never Walk Alone. Over the top in my opinion

[exiled_in_fife]

I know you're on the wind up but your not that far off. Remember the dead chicken foetus!

 

 

 

I switched on the ITV news after the football and they'd been broadcasting live from Anfield and finished the show with You'll Never Walk Alone. Over the top in my opinion

 

Possibly is, but your original point was that the helicopter accident hadn't been given national coverage....

[OneZanderDiamond]

Possibly is, but your original point was that the helicopter accident hadn't been given national coverage....

 

I said almost no national coverage. Even at the time it wasn't the main story.

[exiled_in_fife]

I said almost no national coverage. Even at the time it wasn't the main story.

I would disagree with almost, I think its been fairly substantial, at the time you could argue the coverage was fairly poor. As you've later added the Liverpool coverage seems to be over the top.....still don't agree with your original point though.

[Bobby Connor]

I'm more interested in how come only AFC did a minutes silence? Seems odd to me.

 

Memorial service was broadcast live on BBC News BTW.

[OneZanderDiamond]

I would disagree with almost, I think its been fairly substantial, at the time you could argue the coverage was fairly poor. As you've later added the Liverpool coverage seems to be over the top.....still don't agree with your original point though.

 

Perhaps I'm biased hailing from Aberdeenshire originally but I've been disappointed by the coverage throughout. Agree to disagree

[exiled_in_fife]

Perhaps I'm biased hailing from Aberdeenshire originally but I've been disappointed by the coverage throughout. Agree to disagree

 

No worries!

[vanderark14]

I hope you watched the programme on History last night then, because all of what you'd said above is a bit off the mark, not all of it but some of it very much is. That is all I'm really going to say on the matter.

 

I also don't understand how Liverpool fans can be at fault, considering the guy (who did his first major event) Duckinsdale shat himself and made a call far to late. He opened up another pen, but decided not to shut the tunnel entry to the middle section where it was full.

 

The programme last night was very moving to be honest.

 

Mini, shut up you f**kin bell end, you are a Man United fan and what did they do the other year, had them and Man City wear different strips to remember Munich.......so stop talking utter pish. You were told on the first page to shut the f**k up, and you are told here by me, couldn't a sh*t if you're fishing - you can be a f**kin c**t at times, at 18 - you'd think you'd grow up, so get a grip!

 

Anyways, the reason families want justice is because at the court, the judge called all deaths an accident.

 

what other way is there to describe the deaths Roberto.

 

nobody meant for all of these people to die did they??

[Guest stoney]

I hope you watched the programme on History last night then, because all of what you'd said above is a bit off the mark, not all of it but some of it very much is. That is all I'm really going to say on the matter.

 

I also don't understand how Liverpool fans can be at fault, considering the guy (who did his first major event) Duckinsdale shat himself and made a call far to late. He opened up another pen, but decided not to shut the tunnel entry to the middle section where it was full.

 

The programme last night was very moving to be honest.

 

Mini, shut up you f**kin bell end, you are a Man United fan and what did they do the other year, had them and Man City wear different strips to remember Munich.......so stop talking utter pish. You were told on the first page to shut the f**k up, and you are told here by me, couldn't a sh*t if you're fishing - you can be a f**kin c**t at times, at 18 - you'd think you'd grow up, so get a grip!

 

Anyways, the reason families want justice is because at the court, the judge called all deaths an accident.

 

 

If the police didnt fear the liverpool fans the self proclaimed "nastiest fans" in the country then im sure the police would have been more helpfull - lets be honest liverpool fans in the 80s were amongst the worlds worst - why would you expect the police to run over and help after all the trouble they cause all over europe at the time?

 

Sorry mate but the liverpool supporters reputation proceeded its self here, and lets be honest it would have been exactly the same for millwall, united chelsea spurs etc etc.

[vanderark14]

It could have been prevented!!!!!

 

something like that was always going to happen once these fences were put up to counter hooligans. herdeing fans into these pens like animals was sooner or later going to cause a real problem its just ashame that it happen on such a horrible scale

[Guest stoney]

It could have been prevented!!!!!

 

 

Correct! If football fans behaveed the fences wouldnt have been there. Simples

[K-9]

Services will have brought back bad memories for many and lots of people will be feeling guilty. Cops, medical staff, stewards and of course thousands of fans will be feeling guilty this morning with cops and their own fans the worst.