Hillsborough 20 Years On

[Patty]

The chief admitted that he lied when saying fans broke down the gate non? He opened the gate, there was a mad rush down to the already crowded middle pen. The side pens weren't as full, if they were directed to the side pens the crush probably wouldn't have happened. The most sensible option would have been to delay the kick off.

 

This defence is coming from a Man U fan by the way!

 

EDIT: Oh and to the person saying that Liverpool were given the wrong end? Forest were given 6k more tickets... it wouldn't have been sensible to put them in the smaller part of the ground!

[exiled_in_fife]

Which game are you talking about? There is factually no evidence that a gate was broken or that thousands of people went through the gates without tickets at Hillsborough.

[exiled_in_fife]

The chief admitted that he lied when saying fans broke dow the gate non? He opened the gate, there was a mad rush down to the already crowded middle pen. The side pens weren't as full, if they were directed to the side pens the crush probably wouldn't have happened. The most sensible option would have been to delay the kick off.

 

This defence is coming from a Man U fan by the way!

 

That is my understanding of it also, the police opened the gate and then let folk walk down the main already overfilled pen instead of directing them down the side pens.

[The Hobbit]

Don't post here very often but thought I'd point out that some people need to read the Taylor Report into the disaster.

 

A sysnopsis of the report is as follows;

 

Unlike the Heysel Stadium disaster of 1985 this tragedy didn't occur because of hooliganism, as there was no violence between the two sets of fans. This incident was solely down to congestion. Thousands of fans travelling to the game were late due to traffic on the roads and delays to the railway, however nobody at the ground thought it appropriate to delay the 3pm kick off time. As a result many fans hurriedly entered the ground at the same time to avoid missing any further action. Unfortunately no effort was made to relieve the overcrowding, such as opening large gates. No entrances were sealed off and none of the fans were redirected to safer areas. This along with the ineffectiveness and slowness of the police to react resulted in nearly 100 deaths.

 

There was no violence, no broken gates, no 1000s drunken fans. This is public record, not opinion.

[vanderark14]

Don't post here very often but thought I'd point out that some people need to read the Taylor Report into the disaster.

 

A sysnopsis of the report is as follows;

 

Unlike the Heysel Stadium disaster of 1985 this tragedy didn't occur because of hooliganism, as there was no violence between the two sets of fans. This incident was solely down to congestion. Thousands of fans travelling to the game were late due to traffic on the roads and delays to the railway, however nobody at the ground thought it appropriate to delay the 3pm kick off time. As a result many fans hurriedly entered the ground at the same time to avoid missing any further action. Unfortunately no effort was made to relieve the overcrowding, such as opening large gates. No entrances were sealed off and none of the fans were redirected to safer areas. This along with the ineffectiveness and slowness of the police to react resulted in nearly 100 deaths.

 

There was no violence, no broken gates, no 1000s drunken fans. This is public record, not opinion.

 

finaly some reasoning

[K-9]

9 mins 45 secs shows a "few" fans charging through the gate. Good watch actually and there are 5 parts to the video.

[K-9]

Although the Taylor report helped get senior cops off scot free.

 

Report also states that on pitch during disaster - "There were fans, however, who were disraught, angry, drunk, or all three. Their conduct in abusing, assaulting and spitting at the police was disgraceful, the more so since earlier police failures had little to do with those officers now doing their best for the injured. In addition, there were abuse and assaults on ambulance men and firemen in the course of their rescue work.

[minijc]

Mostly with Stoney who doesn't take it to heart, gives as good as he gets, and we're close mates - we know either or doesn't ever mean it in our presence and that he does have a heart in real circumstances as do I.......

 

I slag Huns for Durrant and I'm sure in the past I have made reference about Munich (read above statement), but that is drink fuelled (no excuse right enough). I'd never go into a Man United Tribute thread and start tearing into them or making jokes about it because I'm a bit more mature than that. It will come with age with you!

 

You have a little bit of growing up to do, and as another poster made reference to. We now know why you have no friends . Now away back and play your spitting games or something because in this thread you have not a single bit of clue about what you're going on about! Was pointed out on page 1 to you, you apologised but still carry on.

Fair enough, I'm not tearing in to the Liverpool fans atall, just taken a bit further than i should have, and I'll stop now, obviously I thought you'd realise the black arm band bits were jokes but then again you never so hey ho.

 

I'll away and read that reports and the links posted then come back with some sensible comments, enjoy your day roberto.

 

RIP.

[The Hobbit]

Although the Taylor report helped get senior cops off scot free.

 

Report also states that on pitch during disaster - "There were fans, however, who were disraught, angry, drunk, or all three. Their conduct in abusing, assaulting and spitting at the police was disgraceful, the more so since earlier police failures had little to do with those officers now doing their best for the injured. In addition, there were abuse and assaults on ambulance men and firemen in the course of their rescue work.

 

Not sure about your first point, the report acheived so much it's difficult to be negative about it.

 

Second point is nice selective quoting min. See them in full.

 

256

There were fans, however, who were distraught, angry, drunk, or all three. Their conduct in abusing,

assaulting and spitting at the police was disgraceful, the more so since earlier police failures had little to do

with those officers now doing their best for the injured. In addition, there were abuse and assaults on

ambulance men and firemen in the course of their rescue work. This was. probably because their similar

uniforms caused them to be mistaken for police. However, although the abuse was widespread, the number of

assaults and spittings was on the evidence comparatively small. In deploring them, one must recognise the

uniquely horrifying experience which those responsible had just suffered and were still suffering.

 

257. Before this Inquiry began, there were stories reported in the press, and said to have emanated from

police officers present at the match, of "mass drunkenness". It was said that drunken fans urinated on the

police while they were pulling the dead and injured out, that others had even urinated on the bodies of the dead

and stolen their belongings. Not a single witness was called before the Inquiry to support any of those

allegations although every opportunity was afforded for any of the represented parties to have any witness

called whom they wished. As soon as the allegations I have mentioned were made in the press, Mr Peter

Wright, Chief Constable of South Yorkshire, made a dignified statement dissociating himself from such grave

and emotive calumnies. Those who made them, and those who disseminated them, would have done better to

hold their peace.

[Lang Bar]

No desire to get involved in arguments regarding the causation of this tragedy, but I would like to put forward the point, that anyone that has never stood on a jammed packed, all standing terracing, will have difficulty empathising with this the incident. That must encompass most of the younger posters on here.

 

Regardless of cause, all football supporters of the day likely shed a tear, because each and every one of us have been there. Not Hillsboro but on a terracing which moved in a sea of people. One slip would have been fatal. We all hanker after terracing again because the atmosphere was so much better, but we would never be allowed capacities in them that we did in days gone by.

[The Oxford Don]

That is my understanding of it also, the police opened the gate and then let folk walk down the main already overfilled pen instead of directing them down the side pens.

 

Totally correct. The police failed to do 2 simple things: delay kick-off, and divert fans away from the already-full areas of terracing. Either of these on its own would have prevented any deaths.

 

When the fans who had arrived late were allowed through the exit gate, they were met with a low tunnel with a sign above it saying 'STANDING' in big letters. There were, crucially, no police there to stop fans going through the tunnel, which led only to the central (already full) areas.

 

To the people in the relatively empty areas of terracing off to the side the whole incident must have seemed especially bizarre - 'why the hell are all those folk trying to get into an area that's already full?' - but of course it was much, much worse than merely bizarre, it was fatal.

[K-9]

Not sure about your first point, the report acheived so much it's difficult to be negative about it.

 

Second point is nice selective quoting min. See them in full.

 

256

There were fans, however, who were distraught, angry, drunk, or all three. Their conduct in abusing,

assaulting and spitting at the police was disgraceful, the more so since earlier police failures had little to do

with those officers now doing their best for the injured. In addition, there were abuse and assaults on

ambulance men and firemen in the course of their rescue work. This was. probably because their similar

uniforms caused them to be mistaken for police. However, although the abuse was widespread, the number of

assaults and spittings was on the evidence comparatively small. In deploring them, one must recognise the

uniquely horrifying experience which those responsible had just suffered and were still suffering.

 

257. Before this Inquiry began, there were stories reported in the press, and said to have emanated from

police officers present at the match, of "mass drunkenness". It was said that drunken fans urinated on the

police while they were pulling the dead and injured out, that others had even urinated on the bodies of the dead

and stolen their belongings. Not a single witness was called before the Inquiry to support any of those

allegations although every opportunity was afforded for any of the represented parties to have any witness

called whom they wished. As soon as the allegations I have mentioned were made in the press, Mr Peter

Wright, Chief Constable of South Yorkshire, made a dignified statement dissociating himself from such grave

and emotive calumnies. Those who made them, and those who disseminated them, would have done better to

hold their peace.

Point is that large number of fans' behaviour had quite a large part in this whole tragedy and not whiter than white attitude they now have in "justice for the 96" campaign.

[The Hobbit]

Point is that large number of fans' behaviour had quite a large part in this whole tragedy and not whiter than white attitude they now have in "justice for the 96" campaign.

 

I think that's an opinion not supported by the facts stated in the Taylor Report but fair enough.

[Guest SS RED]

I think that's an opinion not supported by the facts stated in the Taylor Report but fair enough.

 

Scousers have fairly brainwashed everyone on here.

 

Self Pity City - 1

Abdy else ken - 0

[OneZanderDiamond]

Liverpool away fans are pure and utter filth and scum in my impression, or a very substantial number of them to be strictly accurate.

 

Would agree with that. We were hearing on another thread about one Liverpool fan being chucked out of the game on Tuesday night. Pure scum

[forbesz1903]

Would agree with that. We were hearing on another thread about one Liverpool fan being chucked out of the game on Tuesday night. Pure scum

 

Put the rod away.

[OneZanderDiamond]

Put the rod away.

 

What rod. I stand by what I said "Pure scum"

[forbesz1903]

What rod. I stand by what I said "Pure scum"

[Guest stoney]

you might think you are being funny OZD but i think you are in enough trouble without baiting other folk as well, you might want to keep your gob shut for a few weeks

[OneZanderDiamond]

you might think you are being funny OZD but i think you are in enough trouble without baiting other folk as well, you might want to keep your gob shut for a few weeks

 

Trouble for what? I don't bait anybody

[forbesz1903]

you might think you are being funny OZD but i think you are in enough trouble without baiting other folk as well, you might want to keep your gob shut for a few weeks

 

What a fud.

[OneZanderDiamond]

But yet you sh*t it when it comes to confronting anyone, haha - yeah very good!

 

Anyways, nice to see the files might be opened 10 years earlier

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/8007105.stm

 

What are you on about?

 

Justice For Itandje

[Bluto10]

reading an article by jim lawton in the independant today on hillsbrough.

 

i was pretty young when it happened and i have always thought it was a accident with some mismanagment contributing to it. but then i have never really taken a profound interest in it.

 

but one line puzzled me, see below. to what does he refer to as ''rough behaviour''?

hooliganism?

typical scouse schenanighans, like burglary and petty theft?

 

 

 

No one has ever said that there wasn't some rough behaviour by some Liverpool fans