Thread O Mass Shootings

[Henry]

Given the number of shootings in American schools, we had a talk with our kid about what his school has told him about these mass shootings. It's beyond fucked that a topic that kids have to be educated about is 'What To Do When A Guy Starts Slaughtering Your Schoolmates', but what the fuck else can you do?

 

 

Move somewhere that isn't America?

[Clydeside_Sheep]

America has always been awash with guns, ever since the nation was born in the violence of the American Revolution.

But I think I am right to say that these school massacres are a modern phenomenon, and so what has changed?

I wonder what role the media's heavy exposure of such incidents has in perpetuating them / putting the idea into the heads of disturbed people?

Guns are at the very heat of American identity and self-understanding. In europe, we look at the ballot box as the guarantor of our freedom, in american they look to the cache of firearms in the master bedroom.

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States."

- Noah Webster, An Examination Into the Leading Principles of the Constitution (17 October 1787).

 

America must realise that this analysis no longer holds water, because things have moved on from battles being fought solely by groups of men armed with similar guns. Even if there are 10s of millions of armed yanks prepared to resist their own government, modern technology means that the government would still easily prevail in a conflict.

 

At present I think the uncomfortable conclusion is that gun ownership is more important to many Americans, than the lives of high school pupils.

 

[vanderark14]

America has always been awash with guns, ever since the nation was born in the violence of the American Revolution.

 

But I think I am right to say that these school massacres are a modern phenomenon, and so what has changed?

 

I wonder what role the media's heavy exposure of such incidents has in perpetuating them / putting the idea into the heads of disturbed people?

 

Guns are at the very heat of American identity and self-understanding. In europe, we look at the ballot box as the guarantor of our freedom, in american they look to the cache of firearms in the master bedroom.

 

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States."

 

- Noah Webster, An Examination Into the Leading Principles of the Constitution (17 October 1787).

 

America must realise that this analysis no longer holds water, because things have moved on from battles being fought solely by groups of men armed with similar guns. Even if there are 10s of millions of armed yanks prepared to resist their own government, modern technology means that the government would still easily prevail in a conflict.

 

At present I think the uncomfortable conclusion is that gun ownership is more important to many Americans, than the lives of high school pupils.

 

 

Thats a sweeping generalisation, is it not?

 

Isn't it a case that many americans want big changes to gun laws?

[Clydeside_Sheep]

 

Thats a sweeping generalisation, is it not?

 

Isn't it a case that many americans want big changes to gun laws?

 

Obviously not enough Americans want change - that is resoundingly obvious.

 

Hopefully that will change.

[vanderark14]

 

Obviously not enough Americans want change - that is resoundingly obvious.

 

Hopefully that will change.

 

I read elsewhere that they do want change but the problem is the NRA are huge donors to republicans.

[zander]

This place has been the same 5-6 people arguing shit for days now.

Boring as fuck.

VDA derailing threads yet again.

[vanderark14]

VDA derailing threads yet again.

 

Being accused of derailing threads is a badge of honour on here so thanks min

 

You're just grump because there was no six nations this weekend

[Dal Riata Don]

America has always been awash with guns, ever since the nation was born in the violence of the American Revolution.

 

But I think I am right to say that these school massacres are a modern phenomenon, and so what has changed?

 

I wonder what role the media's heavy exposure of such incidents has in perpetuating them / putting the idea into the heads of disturbed people?

 

In my view I'd lay the blame at teen/ late adolescent hormones and social networking sites.

 

That's a very dangerous mix but whereas in the past a temperamental person could be apart from others or only get social info from a friend or, sometimes a bully; now they can be deluged with information, putdowns and rebuffs, delivered unsympathetically, pretty much 24/7.

 

Throw guns in there with all that teen angst and school shootings will be one of the symptoms.

 

As for the media telly and papers - I doubt that younger people consume much news unless it's been filtered through social media channels again. I don't think that traditional media is to blame here at all.

[mcdougall(4)]

I blame Heavy Metal

You could just have stopped there.

[mcdougall(4)]

 

Obviously not enough Americans want change - that is resoundingly obvious.

 

Hopefully that will change.

To whom is it resoundingly obvious?

[zander]

 

Being accused of derailing threads is a badge of honour on here so thanks min

 

You're just grump because there was no six nations this weekend

Certainly made my Saturday drinking better, being surrounded by less Guinness drinking arseholes.

[dave_min]

America has always been awash with guns, ever since the nation was born in the violence of the American Revolution.

 

But I think I am right to say that these school massacres are a modern phenomenon, and so what has changed?

 

I wonder what role the media's heavy exposure of such incidents has in perpetuating them / putting the idea into the heads of disturbed people?

 

Guns are at the very heat of American identity and self-understanding. In europe, we look at the ballot box as the guarantor of our freedom, in american they look to the cache of firearms in the master bedroom.

 

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States."

 

- Noah Webster, An Examination Into the Leading Principles of the Constitution (17 October 1787).

 

America must realise that this analysis no longer holds water, because things have moved on from battles being fought solely by groups of men armed with similar guns. Even if there are 10s of millions of armed yanks prepared to resist their own government, modern technology means that the government would still easily prevail in a conflict.

 

At present I think the uncomfortable conclusion is that gun ownership is more important to many Americans, than the lives of high school pupils.

 

 

It's because Americans used to have muskets that could fire 1 bullet per day and now they have semi-automatic machine guns that can fire 200 bullets a second.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

It's because Americans used to have muskets that could fire 1 bullet per day and now they have semi-automatic machine guns that can fire 200 bullets a second.

(i) whats because that?

 

(ii) 200 bullets per second sounds like a gross exaggeration to me, dave-min, you sure you are not getting mixed up with your latest warhammer army?

 

For the record, in the era of muskets, good quality troops could fire 3 rounds per minute. Ive seen Sean bean in "Sharpe", so I know.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

To whom is it resoundingly obvious?

Surely anyone who can observe the pretty constant stream of school massacres with no concrete action or political-movement arising as a result.

 

Look how quickly and easily the #metoo movement rose to prominence, pushed by a group of rich, famous, over-privileged and attention seeking actresses.

 

Yet, for the kids shot down in their schools.....nothing.

 

I bet if an anti-gun movement does get off the group anytime soon, it will be chiefly as an anti-trump vehicle.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

I read elsewhere that they do want change but the problem is the NRA are huge donors to republicans.

They probably are, but so what? For politicians, votes > donations.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

That's a very dangerous mix but whereas in the past a temperamental person could be apart from others or only get social info from a friend or, sometimes a bully; now they can be deluged with information, putdowns and rebuffs, delivered unsympathetically, pretty much 24/7.

 

Throw guns in there with all that teen angst and school shootings will be one of the symptoms.

That's a good point. A video surfaced in the media, supposedly of the shooter "fighting" with other students (plural).

 

I didnt watch it, but in my book a fight is 1-v-1, if one person is being attacked by multiple assailants that is bullying not "a fight".

[vanderark14]

 

Obviously not enough Americans want change - that is resoundingly obvious.

 

Hopefully that will change.

 

 

They probably are, but so what? For politicians, votes > donations.

 

Thats what I said initially but you disagreed

[Clydeside_Sheep]

 

 

 

Thats what I said initially but you disagreed

 

I was acknowledging that the NRA are probably big political donors, not that there is a big appetite for change.

[craegDAMH]

 

Obviously not enough Americans want change - that is resoundingly obvious.

 

Hopefully that will change.

 

89% of Americans support a law which would prevent a mentally ill person buying a gun

 

Incidentally, Obama attempted to do this in December 2016, but Trump signed a bill to prevent it being implemented in February 2017

 

84% are in favour of background checks for private sales / gun shows

 

83% are in favour of people on the no-fly list being banned from purchasing guns

 

Can you imagine, a scary brown man who has been put on the no fly list can go and buy as many weapons and ammunition as he wants, why isn't Trump all over this?! Oh right, he received $30million+ from the NRA during the election campaign...

 

71% are in favour of a federal database of guns

 

68% support banning assault weapons

 

65% support banning high capacity magazines

 

 

Look how quickly and easily the #metoo movement rose to prominence, pushed by a group of rich, famous, over-privileged and attention seeking actresses.

 

Yet, for the kids shot down in their schools.....nothing.

 

There isn't a powerful and wealthy lobbying organisation arguing in favour of rapists though, is there?

 

 

They probably are, but so what? For politicians, votes > donations.

 

So why is there so much money spent on election campaigns in the States? Is it possibly because spending more money usually means you win?

 

Republican politicians refuse to do the sensible thing, and argue in favour of sensible gun laws, because the NRA funds their campaigns. And less funding means they lose elections.

[mcdougall(4)]

(i) whats because that?

 

(ii) 200 bullets per second sounds like a gross exaggeration to me, dave-min, you sure you are not getting mixed up with your latest warhammer army?

 

For the record, in the era of muskets, good quality troops could fire 3 rounds per minute. Ive seen Sean bean in "Sharpe", so I know.

 

You're right it was a touch of hyperbole, the AR-15 ONLY fires 800 rounds a minute...

 

Tell me what citizenry needs that for 'hunting purposes'...

[mcdougall(4)]

Surely anyone who can observe the pretty constant stream of school massacres with no concrete action or political-movement arising as a result.

 

Look how quickly and easily the #metoo movement rose to prominence, pushed by a group of rich, famous, over-privileged and attention seeking actresses.

 

Yet, for the kids shot down in their schools.....nothing.

 

I bet if an anti-gun movement does get off the group anytime soon, it will be chiefly as an anti-trump vehicle.

 

 

There have been gun control organisations or anti-gun movements for years, here's the thing they aren't FUNDED BY GUN COMPANIES TO THE TUNE OF MILLIONS AND MILLIONS, so it doesn't fucking matter compared to the HUGE SUMS THE NRA CAN SPEND.

 

They gave 11m + to Trump's campaign or is that insignificant...christ min engage your brain ffs.

 

Kids are dying cos of zealots and big gun money.

[mcdougall(4)]

 

 

 

 

There isn't a powerful and wealthy lobbying organisation arguing in favour of rapists though, is there?

 

 

Catholic church?

[mcdougall(4)]

Hunting a school of fish?

 

 

Gonna need a bigger boat

[Ke1t]

The original reasoning behind the 2nd Amendment (the Right To Bear Arms) was the fear that a 'Tyrannical' government might one day take control of America, and an unarmed populace would be at the mercy of that government.

 

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

 

 

This paranoia, if you want to call it that, is reflected in the Oath of Allegiance, where new Americans promise to

 

...support and defend the Constitution of the United Sates of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

 

Now, to play Devil's Advocate here, in the event of a guy like Trump, who has already heavily implied he wants to lock up political opponents, put an end to the free press, and 'deport' millions, the potential for a tyrannical, authoritarian dictator is not beyond the realms of possibility. In that case an unarmed population would be fucked. A population armed with air rifles or muskets would be fucked too.

 

The only way to pose a threat to a potential dictator in the US is if the population has access to the kind of weapons that are being used to shoot little kids. Assault rifles, and handguns.

 

The one problem with that is that these weapons tend to be in the hands of the very sort of maniac who supports Trump's agenda. They WANT an authoritarian, because they think he'll only fuck over the people they hate... not realising until it;s WAY too late that they're in line to get fucked too.

[mcdougall(4)]

The original reasoning behind the 2nd Amendment (the Right To Bear Arms) was the fear that a 'Tyrannical' government might one day take control of America, and an unarmed populace would be at the mercy of that government.

 

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

 

 

This paranoia, if you want to call it that, is reflected in the Oath of Allegiance, where Americans promise to

 

...support and defend the Constitution of the United Sates of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

 

Now, to play Devil's Advocate here, in the event of a guy like Trump, who has already heavily implied he wants to lock up political opponents, put an end to the free press, and 'deport' millions, the potential for a tyrannical, authoritarian dictator is not beyond the realms of possibility. In that case an unarmed population would be fucked. A population armed with air rifles or muskets would be fucked too.

 

The only way to pose a threat to a potential dictator in the US is if the population has access to the kind of weapons that are being used to shoot little kids. Assault rifles, and handguns.

 

The one problem with that is that these weapons tend to be in the hands of the very sort of maniac who supports Trump's agenda. They WANT an authoritarian, because they think he'll only fuck over the people they hate... not realising until it;s WAY too late that they're in line to get fucked too.

 

 

People of colour, specific religions and sexual orientations...

[Ke1t]

 

 

People of colour, specific religions and sexual orientations...

 

That's what they're hoping for.

 

Nothing makes me laugh quite like hearing people on the news greetin' that Trump has fucked them over when they voted for the guy.

 

They were fine when they thought Trump was going to fuck over Mussies, Libtards, Mexicans, and 'those not like us', but when reality kicks in and they realise he's also coming after their welfare, health insurance, and kids' education they think we should feel fucking sorry for them.

 

I personally know two Trump voters who are about to either lose their health insurance or pay about double their current payment... one of them desperately needs Diabetes meds... He was cool with Trump when it was just the Blacks, Spics, and Mussies, though...

 

Anyway, he gets to keep his assault rifles... so when he's fucked up because he can't afford the meds that are keeping him alive, and he's lost any pension he was getting from the state, he'll always have the 'Shoot up a local school in a frenzy of rage and frustration' option to fall back on.

 

Silly cunt.

[1903Fitba]

Poor parenting

Social media

Medication

 

 

3 reasons why these nut jobs do it

[mcdougall(4)]

 

That's what they're hoping for.

 

Nothing makes me laugh quite like hearing people on the news greetin' that Trump has fucked them over when they voted for the guy.

 

They were fine when they thought Trump was going to fuck over Mussies, Libtards, Mexicans, and 'those not like us', but when reality kicks in and they realise he's also coming after their welfare, health insurance, and kids' education they think we should feel fucking sorry for them.

 

I personally know two Trump voters who are about to either lose their health insurance or pay about double their current payment... one of them desperately needs Diabetes meds... He was cool with Trump when it was just the Blacks, Spics, and Mussies, though...

 

Anyway, he gets to keep his assault rifles... so when he's fucked up because he can't afford the meds that are keeping him alive, and he's lost any pension he was getting from the state, he'll always have the 'Shoot up a local school in a frenzy of rage and frustration' option to fall back on.

 

Silly cunt.

 

 

It was a case of Turkeys voting for Christmas, he was never going to look after the 'common man'.

 

The Universal Health Care thing is crazy to me. When I lived there I was petrified every time I had a sniffle...

[mcdougall(4)]

Poor parenting

Social media

Medication

 

 

3 reasons why these nut jobs do it

 

 

Access to semi- automatic weapons...

[1903Fitba]

 

 

Access to semi- automatic weapons...

Yes.

 

Thats why some of the states with the highest gun ownership have the lowest % of mass shootings.