Scottish Independence Referendum 2

[caledonia]

28 minutes ago, redpearl said:

Dont know how you can be bothered arguing with shower of bed wetting unionists that proport to follow the dons.

Yes i know says he votes Lib Dem every one of his posts are against SNP then fails to give one reason not to vote Tory but has hundreds of reasons not to vote SNP.

strange 

[caledonia]

4 minutes ago, Geoff_Tipps said:

I am a bit bemused, has Caledonia actually stated who votes for having said he doesn't vote SNP? 

I am assuming Green given its the only other Scottish Party supporting Independence.

Who do you vote for Geoff?

[afc_blockhead]

30 minutes ago, Parklife said:

No. Im saying the period you quote them as using them, they were doing so because it suited them. 

Just like you're attempting to do now. How can you lambast someone else for doing the same thing you are doing? ?

I never said we did at present. I'm saying you can't use how Scotland performs AS PART OF THE UK, to judge how they would perform outwith the UK. It's pretty basic. Strange that I'm on my 3rd post saying it and you still dont get it.

I suggest you get one. Then you'll be able to read what people actually type. 

In relation to GERS it is now and has been for some time collated , edited and released by people working under and for the Scottish Government. So why would you argue its incorrect?

The GERS data is provided by the Scottish Government so as you believe them to be perfect and trustworthy lets say the data is good?

So in 2018/19 Scotlands economy raised 65.4 billion in revenue . Subtract devolved spending of 46.2 billion. You then have 19.2 billion. Westminster then spends a further 22.2 billion in Scotland (pensions/benefits/rail costs in Scotland/ Tax Credits in Scotland etc. 

This money also includes 1.8 billion in international costs , the SNPs Growth Commission said Scotland would maintain this as well.

So even after you exclude from GERS costs for things outwith Scotland the HS2 costs, House of Commons and Lords, BBC etc Scotland has already got an extra 4.8 billion more than raised in taxes in that financial year alone. Before charging a single penny for debt interest or defence.

No sensible interpretation of this data could say Scotland gets less back than it sends to Westminster.

You will though.. prove it!

[Geoff_Tipps]

I vote SNP as I want independence. After we get independence I'd like to see Scottish Labour sort their shit out.

Why are you refusing to answer?

[afc_blockhead]

4 minutes ago, caledonia said:

Yes i know says he votes Lib Dem every one of his posts are against SNP then fails to give one reason not to vote Tory but has hundreds of reasons not to vote SNP.

strange 

Ive never voted Tory .

Who do you vote for? Ive asked ten times since you said its not the SNP . Simple question.

[afc_blockhead]

35 minutes ago, Parklife said:

No. Im saying the period you quote them as using them, they were doing so because it suited them. 

Just like you're attempting to do now. How can you lambast someone else for doing the same thing you are doing? ?

I never said we did at present. I'm saying you can't use how Scotland performs AS PART OF THE UK, to judge how they would perform outwith the UK. It's pretty basic. Strange that I'm on my 3rd post saying it and you still dont get it.

I suggest you get one. Then you'll be able to read what people actually type. 

Also . Ive asked a few times.

What would/do you use to measure things to confidently believe an independent Scotland would be more prosperous? 

Do you understand the question or are you ignoring it as you cant answer? 

[Parklife]

8 minutes ago, afc_blockhead said:

In relation to GERS it is now and has been for some time collated , edited and released by people working under and for the Scottish Government. So why would you argue its incorrect?

The GERS data is provided by the Scottish Government so as you believe them to be perfect and trustworthy lets say the data is good?

So in 2018/19 Scotlands economy raised 65.4 billion in revenue . Subtract devolved spending of 46.2 billion. You then have 19.2 billion. Westminster then spends a further 22.2 billion in Scotland (pensions/benefits/rail costs in Scotland/ Tax Credits in Scotland etc. 

This money also includes 1.8 billion in international costs , the SNPs Growth Commission said Scotland would maintain this as well.

So even after you exclude from GERS costs for things outwith Scotland the HS2 costs, House of Commons and Lords, BBC etc Scotland has already got an extra 4.8 billion more than raised in taxes in that financial year alone. Before charging a single penny for debt interest or defence.

No sensible interpretation of this data could say Scotland gets less back than it sends to Westminster.

You will though.. prove it!

First up, the GERS figures are produced by (independent) civil servants. They're statistical and not political.

As I've pointed out already (you're doing that failure to read thing again), GERS is primarily based on estimates. There's no way of apportioning revenue from a whole range of taxes geographically. Nor is there any way of apportioning spending on a whole manner of things geographically. it's all estimates. 

You clearly don't understand GERS figures, nor how they're produced, yet have the temerity to argue about them. ? 

[afc_blockhead]

1 minute ago, Bad_Mobby said:

who gives a fuck about being more prosperous? 
 

get the guffs to fuck 
 

Fair enough if thats your only reason to make the decision.

Caledonia cant even admit he votes SNP. Weak fuck.

[afc_blockhead]

3 minutes ago, Parklife said:

First up, the GERS figures are produced by (independent) civil servants. They're statistical and not political.

As I've pointed out already (you're doing that failure to read thing again), GERS is primarily based on estimates. There's no way of apportioning revenue from a whole range of taxes geographically. Nor is there any way of apportioning spending on a whole manner of things geographically. it's all estimates. 

You clearly don't understand GERS figures, nor how they're produced, yet have the temerity to argue about them. ? 

Statistics that your chosen party are part of creating and have used in the past to justify the cause you support. 

So ... what do you base your assumptions/suggestion that Scotland would be better off financially independent on? 

Come on. For a champion reader you seem to struggle to get through and comprehend that question.

[Parklife]

7 minutes ago, afc_blockhead said:

Also . Ive asked a few times.

First time you've asked me. 

7 minutes ago, afc_blockhead said:

What would/do you use to measure things to confidently believe an independent Scotland would be more prosperous? 
 

First up I'd not spend billions on nuclear weapons. 

7 minutes ago, afc_blockhead said:

Do you understand the question or are you ignoring it as you cant answer? 

You've never asked me it. 

Democracy doesn't rely on prosperity though. Cunts who have plenty money but vote based on being up £500 are people I can't relate to. 

[Parklife]

Just now, afc_blockhead said:

Neither do you. 
 

I do. I actually read them. 

Just now, afc_blockhead said:

So ... what do you base your assumptions/suggestion that Scotland would be better off financially independent on? 
 

I never said they would be better off financially, you've made that up. 

Just now, afc_blockhead said:

Come on. For a champion reader you seem to struggle to get through and comprehend that question.

I understand it. You've just made things up and claimed I've said them though. 

[afc_blockhead]

4 minutes ago, Parklife said:

First time you've asked me. 

First up I'd not spend billions on nuclear weapons. 

You've never asked me it. 

Democracy doesn't rely on prosperity though. Cunts who have plenty money but vote based on being up £500 are people I can't relate to. 

So you base it on nuclear weapons? 

Thats your answer? 

The Scottish Governments own commission this year said they would spend the same proportion on defence that they currently do.

So GERS is bollocks but you base the financial arguments of independence on "removing weapons". 

So Scottish people inherently all vote for parties that dont improve their own lives? 

Your justifications and assumptions are fucking mental ?

[afc_blockhead]

1 minute ago, Parklife said:

I do. I actually read them. 

I never said they would be better off financially, you've made that up. 

I understand it. You've just made things up and claimed I've said them though. 

So Scotland would be worse off financially with independence? Or you are saying its perfectly plausible GERS figures are correct and we will run at  a huge deficit immediately? 

If not financial reasons . Why do you think Scotland would be better off independent? 

Simple question again.

[afc_blockhead]

4 minutes ago, Parklife said:

I do. I actually read them. 

I never said they would be better off financially, you've made that up. 

I understand it. You've just made things up and claimed I've said them though. 

Reading and comprehension are 2 different things.

You think GERS figures are worthless and tell you nothing but you study them deeply and understand them? .. ... ok ... 

[Parklife]

1 minute ago, afc_blockhead said:

So you base it on nuclear weapons? 

Thats your answer? 
 

No. You asked me for a way we could gain prosperity, I gave you one. 

1 minute ago, afc_blockhead said:

The Scottish Governments own commission this year said they would spend the same proportion on defence that they currently do.

1. We don't know what we spend on defence 

2. What the SNP say about a future Scottish government isn't relevant. 

1 minute ago, afc_blockhead said:

So GERS is bollocks but you base the financial arguments of independence on "removing weapons". 
 

No. Again you're showing you can't read and understand. 

1 minute ago, afc_blockhead said:

So Scottish people inherently all vote for parties that dont improve their own lives? 

What? You're havering. Are you drunk? 

Just now, afc_blockhead said:

So Scotland would be worse off financially with independence? Or you are saying its perfectly plausible GERS figures are correct and we will run at  a huge deficit immediately? 
 

No. I think they're nonsense. I've told you why. 

Just now, afc_blockhead said:

If not financial reasons . Why do you think Scotland would be better off independent? 

Simple question again.

Scotland getting the government it votes for. I'm a big fan of democracy. 

[Parklife]

1 minute ago, afc_blockhead said:

Reading and comprehension are 2 different things.

You think GERS figures are worthless and tell you nothing but you study them deeply and understand them? .. ... ok ... 

Who said they were "worthless"? I said they're not a barometer of how an independent Scotland would perform. I've said it many times.  It's telling that you still don't get it. 

You're genuinely too think to debate with, so I'll leave you to make up straw men and argue them all by yourself now. 

 

[caledonia]

10 minutes ago, Geoff_Tipps said:

I vote SNP as I want independence. After we get independence I'd like to see Scottish Labour sort their shit out.

Why are you refusing to answer?

I never said i did not vote snp what I actually said if blockhead had read correctly was i did not support the snp.

I have voted SNP for many years but this year unless its a plebiscite for independence i will only vote on the list probably ISP as i don't believe in Salmond being stitched up for Rape

[afc_blockhead]

6 minutes ago, Parklife said:

No. You asked me for a way we could gain prosperity, I gave you one. 

1. We don't know what we spend on defence 

2. What the SNP say about a future Scottish government isn't relevant. 

No. Again you're showing you can't read and understand. 

What? You're havering. Are you drunk? 

No. I think they're nonsense. I've told you why. 

Scotland getting the government it votes for. I'm a big fan of democracy. 

To want Independence and to argue that the current figures compiled by Scottish economists and signed off as accurate by the Scottish Government are pointless, i presumed you have something else to base Scotland not being worse off financially independent? 

Why do you think we wouldnt be worse off financially? 

1. We do. Its in the figures haha

2. Except they would be in Government post independence and thus would be responsible for all these things.

3. Well fine. Explain why we would be better off financially? You confidently state current measurements are wrong. So you must think some ways of predicting finances post independence are right?  Explain.

4. More people have voted for pro union parties than the SNP every time to date in Scotland. Most people in Scotland dont get the government they want right? 

 

[afc_blockhead]

4 minutes ago, caledonia said:

I never said i did not vote snp what I actually said if blockhead had read correctly was i did not support the snp.

I have voted SNP for many years but this year unless its a plebiscite for independence i will only vote on the list probably ISP as i don't believe in Salmond being stitched up for Rape

So you vote for a party you dont support?  You do support them by voting for them ..

You stated you would vote independence "no matter what". Your opinion is therefore as worthless as a piece of dog shit.

You would vote for independence even if you knew for a fact Scotland would collapse post independence. 

Some nationalist!

[afc_blockhead]

12 minutes ago, Parklife said:

Who said they were "worthless"? I said they're not a barometer of how an independent Scotland would perform. I've said it many times.  It's telling that you still don't get it. 

You're genuinely too think to debate with, so I'll leave you to make up straw men and argue them all by yourself now. 

 

So what do you use as a barometer? Simple question. Ive asked you many times. Its telling that you still dont answer it.

Presumably in your conviction that independence is a good idea, you have something you use as a barometer to come to that opinion?

I also would imagine including figures such as how much money is sent to Scotland each year by Westminster vs what we currently bring in with taxes is a decent start in understanding the facts.

Im sure the barometer you are about to tell me you use is much better though. Im waiting.

"Too think to debate with" haha

Straw men arguments?  From the man who decries any current barometer criticising the SNP or weakening independence as a possibility without offering any evidence of what he DOES base his assumptions on.. thats priceless.

[caledonia]

28 minutes ago, afc_blockhead said:

Ive never voted Tory .

Who do you vote for? Ive asked ten times since you said its not the SNP . Simple question.

Never said you voted Tory learn to read.

Since you have plenty bad to say about the SNP who you hate (admitted further up thread)

And you said you were a Lib Dem voter 

Give us a reason NOT to vote Tory upcoming elections 

[caledonia]

8 minutes ago, afc_blockhead said:

So what do you use as a barometer? Simple question. Ive asked you many times. Its telling that you still dont answer it.

Presumably in your conviction that independence is a good idea, you have something you use as a barometer to come to that opinion?

I also would imagine including figures such as how much money is sent to Scotland each year by Westminster vs what we currently bring in with taxes is a decent start in understanding the facts.

Im sure the barometer you are about to tell me you use is much better though. Im waiting.

"Too think to debate with" haha

Straw men arguments?  From the man who decries any current barometer criticising the SNP or weakening independence as a possibility without offering any evidence of what he DOES base his assumptions on.. thats priceless.

Have you read the McCrone report commissioned by the Tories about Scotlands wealth.

[Parklife]

2 minutes ago, afc_blockhead said:

So what do you use as a barometer? Simple question. Ive asked you many times. Its telling that you still dont answer it.

I don't. I've never mentioned financials. You just keep making up I have. Mainly because you're incapable of debating like an adult and instead want to fit the same pre-decided lines in to a debate, regardless of what the other person has said. 

2 minutes ago, afc_blockhead said:

Presumably in your conviction that independence is a good idea, you have something you use as a barometer to come to that opinion?

Yeah. I told you. Primarily democracy and that countries should look after themselves. 

2 minutes ago, afc_blockhead said:

"Too think to debate with" haha

Yeah. I done a typo. That makes up for you being a moron.

You're embarrassing, min. I'll leave you to it now. 

[afc_blockhead]

4 minutes ago, Parklife said:

I don't. I've never mentioned financials. You just keep making up I have. Mainly because you're incapable of debating like an adult and instead want to fit the same pre-decided lines in to a debate, regardless of what the other person has said. 

Yeah. I told you. Primarily democracy and that countries should look after themselves. 

Yeah. I done a typo. That makes up for you being a moron.

You're embarrassing, min. I'll leave you to it now. 

Not at all. Youve already stated you dont believe Scotland would be worse off independent.

So you believe better off? Why? 

You either believe we would be worse off financially and are fine with it, or better off with good reason. 

You keep avoiding it? 

Ive explained democratically in the last 13 years more people didnt want the SNP than did in every election. Does the "government we vote for" only count when it suits your argument? 

Ah look after ourselves. At any cost?  Successful or not in independence you are happy if we are "on our own"?

Youve justified fuck all. Its hilarious. So stupid but believe you are clued up.

Youve gone from "getting rid of nuclear weapons" as justification we would be better off to not really caring if we are.

Embarrassing. Not going to waste any more time on someone who tries to condescend whilst offering no constructive case at all to back himself up.

Idiot 

[Parklife]

8 minutes ago, afc_blockhead said:

Not at all. Youve already stated you dont believe Scotland would be worse off independent.

So you believe better off? Why? 

You either believe we would be worse off financially and are fine with it, or better off with good reason. 

You keep avoiding it? 

Ive explained democratically in the last 13 years more people didnt want the SNP than did in every election. Does the "government we vote for" only count when it suits your argument? 

Ah look after ourselves. At any cost?  Successful or not in independence you are happy if we are "on our own"?

Youve justified fuck all. Its hilarious. So stupid but believe you are clued up.

Youve gone from "getting rid of nuclear weapons" as justification we would be better off to not really caring if we are.

Embarrassing. Not going to waste any more time on someone who tries to condescend whilst offering no constructive case at all to back himself up.

Idiot 

Genuinely, have you been drinking? 

[caledonia]

3 minutes ago, Parklife said:

Genuinely, have you been drinking? 

Despite asking about 4 times he fails to answer why we should not vote Tory next election but has hundreds of reasons not to vote SNP

Strange that for a Lib Dem

[Parklife]

2 minutes ago, caledonia said:

Despite asking about 4 times he fails to answer why we should not vote Tory next election but has hundreds of reasons not to vote SNP

Strange that for a Lib Dem

It's as strange as him just making up what I've said. 

[afc_blockhead]

10 minutes ago, Parklife said:

Genuinely, have you been drinking? 

Nope. 

Youve gone round the houses to state that ultimately you want independence for "democracy" reasons.

Brilliant

[afc_blockhead]

3 minutes ago, Parklife said:

It's as strange as him just making up what I've said. 

Caledonia is your chief supporter here. Note that is not a positive or indication you are correct.

 

[afc_blockhead]

8 minutes ago, caledonia said:

Despite asking about 4 times he fails to answer why we should not vote Tory next election but has hundreds of reasons not to vote SNP

Strange that for a Lib Dem

Eh? 

You are the window licking mong type of nationalist that will mean independence will never happen. Anyone on the fence who meets or speaks to someone like you about it is an instant no.

This thread is about independence. A few people are militantly for it , in your case for no apparent reason. I therefore talk about the SNP on here, the party in government who push for independence . Understand that you dribbling fuck ? ?

Being obsessed with Tories and everyone who doesnt support independence being one is the most stereotypical stupid "argument" of any SNP supporter.

The Tories in general are a bunch of ex Eton  super rich detached from the world cunts. Does that make you feel better?