Scottish Independence Referendum 2

[Parklife]

5 minutes ago, BitWait said:

You ain't seen nothing yet . UK can borrow at a relatively low interest rate due to past economic performance, said interest rate would be a lot higher for a new country

So the answer to my question is "yes", then? 

5 minutes ago, BitWait said:

and especially one that admires the Greek model of doing things in charge. 

You're just making things up here. 

[afc_blockhead]

1 hour ago, Parklife said:

Independent countries have the ability to affect their own economic performance. 

Scotland would have a strong economy. We have huge natural resources, strong exports & our world class educational institutions make us an attractive place for business to invest. 

Whether we'd be slightly better off, or slightly worse off, I'm not qualified to say (and neither are you). 

I'm not here trying to make an argument. I'm just telling you that the GERS figures aren't an indication of how an independent Scotland would perform. 

All I've done is point out that the GERS figures are not an indication of how an independent Scotland. Since you don't understand them and are only using headline figures because they suit you're argument, you've been unable to grasp this pretty basic comment. 

I'm not trying to do anything other than tell you that GERS figures are not an indication of how an independent Scotland would perform. 

Loads of criticism of Independence is legitimate. It just so happens that you don't understand the GERS figures and that's the criticism you're attempting to wrongly use. 

(I've said the same thing another 3 times here in the hope that you'll finally be able to read and understand). 

Yes they do , but that ability to affect economic performance is not a reason in itself to follow independence, nor is it any sort of guarantee about any success whatsoever at actually doing it!

You aren't qualified to say , but you are sure we would be "slightly" better off or "slightly worse off. You don't believe in any possibility of being much worse off?! You are guessing then. So you are not keen for independence due to a confidence in us being a richer country. At least we have finally got the truth from you.

GERS figures I fully understand are not 100% a full reflection of the potential financial position after independence, but they are much more of an accurate reflection than "We have huge natural resources (Are you really pushing oil? After the lies of 2014 and the shit position of the oil industry since?!) , strong exports (the biggest "customer" of which by far is the rest of the UK right?) & our world class educational institutions (You may have seen , i'm not just being sarcastic here, Scotland's education attainment as a nation has been regressing badly in the past few years. Certainly not what it used to be) make us an attractive place for business to invest".

You can be condescending as much as you like about "not understanding GERS". You yourself have pointed out you are not qualified to predict anything, but you feel confident enough to decry figures which whilst obviously not being a 100% indication of an independent nation are certainly closer to predicting a final position than your guff above about natural resources , strong exports and our educational institutions!

 

[Henry]

1 hour ago, afc_blockhead said:

If you do want independence when the country would be poorer then whose the simpleton ?

?

Honestly, you're going to have to be more careful if you insist on calling folk thick, simpletons or morons. 

[afc_blockhead]

42 minutes ago, Parklife said:

So the answer to my question is "yes", then? 

You're just making things up here. 

 

1 hour ago, Parklife said:

You can keep throwing insults which mock mentally disabled folk around if you like. It'll not change anything. It just makes you look like a cunt. 

I wasn't arguing the merits of in independent Scotland in this thread, nor claiming it'd be better off financially. You've just made up that I was doing that. 

You asked for "one thing" we could do that'd make us better off. I told you "one thing". Now you want to create another strawman and try and use a simple answer to a simple question as if that is the entire basis I have for believing a country should govern themselves. 

Youre clearly unable to debate or have a discussion like an adult, so I'll bow out and leave you to call me names. Hopefully that'll make you feel better about your failings and inadequacies. 
 

So a supporter of independence, in a thread about independence (in which many people are arguing both ways about which option is correct) is not arguing the merits of an independent Scotland? ?

I've asked you, do you think we would be better off financially. Whilst sitting on the fence and saying you don't know you have also managed to make strong suggestions that any figures that are negative to the idea of independence being a financial success are a load of bollocks.

When I ask you to tell me what figures lead you to not think that you can't answer.

So basically we have established you don't necessarily believe we would be better off as an independent nation financially.

I have asked therefore why you think independence is a good idea, you gave some generic guff about "democracy".

The final paragraph is running away from an argument with irrelevance. You have insulted me many times on this thread , including calling me a "simpleton" etc, so don't try for any moral high ground.

You are running away from this as your deflection and ignoring basic questions about your motivations for independence is obvious.

I'm as happy to stop talking to you as you are to me but be in no doubt that your arguments for the very thing you are arguing for are incredibly fucking weak to non existent.

[afc_blockhead]

4 minutes ago, Henry said:

?

Honestly, you're going to have to be more careful if you insist on calling folk thick, simpletons or morons. 

Thank you for the advice Mr Hoover.

[afc_blockhead]

47 minutes ago, BitWait said:

You ain't seen nothing yet . UK can borrow at a relatively low interest rate due to past economic performance, said interest rate would be a lot higher for a new country and especially one that admires the Greek model of doing things in charge. 

I note in his reply he has (again) chosen to ignore a key point you are making, that interest rates and borrowing would be much higher for an independent Scotland than they are for the UK currently.

This is of course a fact based on common sense. He will deny it. Just because.

He will mention something entirely irrelevant to try and move away from your point and not answer it effectively. This is his way of arguing.

[caledonia]

1 hour ago, Bad_Mobby said:

Some ladz on here clearly like licking guff boot 

Never knew there were so many unionist bed wetters that support the dons.

There argument seems to be that Scotland is the only country in the world that cant do anything.

No wonder the SNP are polling in massive numbers if your told your shite at everything.

I will just keep referring back to this

 

[afc_blockhead]

1 hour ago, caledonia said:

Never knew there were so many unionist bed wetters that support the dons.

There argument seems to be that Scotland is the only country in the world that cant do anything.

No wonder the SNP are polling in massive numbers if your told your shite at everything (Depends which poll you read, plus ... doesn't make sense).

I will just keep referring back to this

 

A 1950's article in the Mail about Maltese independence and a Burns quote have been shared by you in the past 24 hours. The intellectual powerhouse is at it again.

What a cliche of a nationalist you really are.

?

PS if you want to boil it down to Burns, he also said "Be Britain still to Britain true, Amang ourself united, For never but by British hands maun British wrongs be wrighted"

 

[caledonia]

See the Tories in England have lost a person with a new variant of covid despite spending 22 billion on track and trace.

As a Lib Dem voter @afc_blockhead should be all over this waste of public money

 

[caledonia]

7 minutes ago, afc_blockhead said:

A 1950's article in the Mail about Maltese independence and a Burns quote have been shared by you in the past 24 hours. The intellectual powerhouse is at it again.

What a cliche of a nationalist you really are.

?

Your argument is Scotland is the only country in the world that cant be independent 

you do realise how stupid this looks

[afc_blockhead]

45 minutes ago, caledonia said:

Your argument is Scotland is the only country in the world that cant be independent 

you do realise how stupid this looks

Have I ever said that? "the only country in the world" as well.

You said you would vote for independence NO MATTER WHAT.

Do you realise how stupid that looks/is ? ?

[afc_blockhead]

47 minutes ago, caledonia said:

See the Tories in England have lost a person with a new variant of covid despite spending 22 billion on track and trace.

As a Lib Dem voter @afc_blockhead should be all over this waste of public money

 

Eh ? You are so stupid it is very nearly unbelievable.

You are the thickest of thick nationalists. Obsessed with Tories ?

Yeah losing 1 person seems stupid, I agree.

As for a waste of public money, what do you think of the Sick Kids Hospital in Edinburgh built for hundreds of millions (plus costing millions per month) that can't be opened due to how badly it was managed/built? Or a court case doomed to failure by a Government now trying to cover this fact up? 

You happy with these examples of wasting public money?

[Joe pike]

1 hour ago, caledonia said:

Your argument is Scotland is the only country in the world that cant be independent 

you do realise how stupid this looks

This time next year we will all be millionaires now they have discovered gold in them there hills.

By the way Caledonia which currency do you intend to use when you become enslaved in the EU again?

[Studebaker-90]

Ah the old currency debate, the cornerstone of any good unionists rhetoric. 

[caledonia]

20 minutes ago, afc_blockhead said:

Eh ? You are so stupid it is very nearly unbelievable.

You are the thickest of thick nationalists. Obsessed with Tories ?

Yeah losing 1 person seems stupid, I agree.

As for a waste of public money, what do you think of the Sick Kids Hospital in Edinburgh built for hundreds of millions (plus costing millions per month) that can't be opened due to how badly it was managed/built? Or a court case doomed to failure by a Government now trying to cover this fact up? 

You happy with these examples of wasting public money?

There you go again deflect the tory billions and bring up the snp 

what about this hospital in Tory run England

As a Lib Dem why you only calling out one party

 

[Joe pike]

2 minutes ago, Studebaker-90 said:

Ah the old currency debate, the cornerstone of any good unionists rhetoric. 

Can't have a debate if you don't answer Stud.

[caledonia]

32 minutes ago, afc_blockhead said:

Have I ever said that? "the only country in the world" as well.

You said you would vote for independence NO MATTER WHAT.

Do you realise how stupid that looks/is ? ?

So you admit Scotland could be independent excellent lets get it done.

[caledonia]

15 minutes ago, Joe pike said:

This time next year we will all be millionaires now they have discovered gold in them there hills.

By the way Caledonia which currency do you intend to use when you become enslaved in the EU again?

You do know all countries in the world have currencies 

we would have whatever the Scottish people choose.

[afc_blockhead]

17 minutes ago, Joe pike said:

This time next year we will all be millionaires now they have discovered gold in them there hills.

By the way Caledonia which currency do you intend to use when you become enslaved in the EU again?

Also can he answer how Scotland intends to lower its national debt to levels needed to join the EU? Considering the Scottish Governments own internal team recently said a minimum of 10 years of austerity far in excess of what we have experienced to date would be needed to get close!

[caledonia]

2 minutes ago, afc_blockhead said:

Also can he answer how Scotland intends to lower its national debt to levels needed to join the EU? Considering the Scottish Governments own internal team recently said a minimum of 10 years of austerity far in excess of what we have experienced to date would be needed to get close!

We will vote the Tories in and lie, cheat and waste billions to our mates and we might even break international law and run up well over 2 trillion debt and we should be ok.

See the Tory corruption is spreading to Scotland 

 

[afc_blockhead]

18 minutes ago, caledonia said:

There you go again deflect the tory billions and bring up the snp 

what about this hospital in Tory run England

As a Lib Dem why you only calling out one party

 

Well done , an up to date news story. Yup, this is bad. The costs have risen almost 300 million. Largely as a result of the collapse of Carillion.

Why are you obsessed with Tories and why can you not accept any criticism of your cult without referring to them? ?

It may surprise you that as health is an area that is devolved the massive failures of the Scottish Government in this area matter more to me than what is happening at any English Hospitals. Do you understand this?

The Sick Kids Hospital was meant to cost £150 million. Its full cost will sit at about £432 million. Plus .. it can't even fucking open yet due to the incompetence of the Government.

It cost the Taxpayer £23 million in maintenance fees while unable to be used.

Meanwhile an enquiry is also underway in to the fuck ups with the Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Glasgow.

Happy with this? Any acceptance that your beloved cult might have been shite here based on the above?

Or just .. "Tories" ?

[afc_blockhead]

7 minutes ago, caledonia said:

We will vote the Tories in and lie, cheat and waste billions to our mates and we might even break international law and run up well over 2 trillion debt and we should be ok.

See the Tory corruption is spreading to Scotland 

 

So .. no answers on currency or how the national debt comes down to meet EU targets to join (without the most severe austerity you've ever lived through) ? You surprise me ?

As for this deflection, you do realise that your own cult are hardly appearing to be straight forward honest people don't you? 

Even aside from the enquiry (all the cover ups and corruption amongst the higher ups in the SNP are OK?) , the Paedophile SNP Minister who the police found guilty over 1 year ago has still been on full pay why the SNP do nothing about it. This is OK as well is it because they aren't Tories? 

[caledonia]

Why are you defending the tories

The Tories are in power so why should they not be used as a comparison 

[caledonia]

2 minutes ago, afc_blockhead said:

So .. no answers on currency or how the national debt comes down to meet EU targets to join (without the most severe austerity you've ever lived through) ? You surprise me ?

As for this deflection, you do realise that your own cult are hardly appearing to be straight forward honest people don't you? 

Even aside from the enquiry (all the cover ups and corruption amongst the higher ups in the SNP is OK? , the Paedophile SNP Minister who the police found guilty over 1 years ago has still been on full pay why the SNP do nothing about it. This is OK as well because they aren't Tories? 

There’s no answer because you are talking shit even the majority on here think so

 

[afc_blockhead]

25 minutes ago, caledonia said:

So you admit Scotland could be independent excellent lets get it done.

Haha of course it COULD be independent. What do you even think you are saying here? ?

You or I COULD win the lottery. 

You COULD stick in your head in a bucket of pig shit.

Could doesn't mean it happens, it also doesn't mean it should.

Jesus, you are stupider than anyone I've ever seen on here. Shoofta is more intelligent than you ?

[afc_blockhead]

6 minutes ago, caledonia said:

Why are you defending the tories

The Tories are in power so why should they not be used as a comparison 

The SNP are in power you absolute fucking knob, for over 13 years , failing miserably in the area we are discussing, namely healthcare ?

Whose defending the Tories anyway? I said it was bad. 

I'll ask you, why do you constantly bring up the Tories in any argument , especially when discussing something nothing to do with them? It's a sickness you have.

[caledonia]

5 minutes ago, afc_blockhead said:

So .. no answers on currency or how the national debt comes down to meet EU targets to join (without the most severe austerity you've ever lived through) ? You surprise me ?

As for this deflection, you do realise that your own cult are hardly appearing to be straight forward honest people don't you? 

Even aside from the enquiry (all the cover ups and corruption amongst the higher ups in the SNP is OK? , the Paedophile SNP Minister who the police found guilty over 1 years ago has still been on full pay why the SNP do nothing about it. This is OK as well because they aren't Tories? 

Told you already i support Scottish Independence after that i might vote Green or Labour or even Lib Dem depending on policys.

But i would never vote for a party that gives billions to its mates while voting to starve school children

[afc_blockhead]

1 minute ago, caledonia said:

Told you already i support Scottish Independence after that i might vote Green or Labour or even Lib Dem depending on policys.

But i would never vote for a party that gives billions to its mates while voting to starve school children

But you don't care whether independence means Scotland is much worse off, you would vote for it under any circumstances, you said that , not me.

The SNP have presided over a rise in poverty in Scotland, as well as a rise in the gap between rich and poor. So I think you will find (again) that the cult leaders you look up to have failed on this too.

Also, your obsession with Tories aside, so if a Labour government got in within Westminster would you change your mind on independence then? You just said you would vote for them after independence potentially ... 

[afc_blockhead]

28 minutes ago, caledonia said:

You do know all countries in the world have currencies 

we would have whatever the Scottish people choose.

Wow, why didn't the SNP just say this in 2014, or any time since they've been challenged on currency. 

It is as simple as that in your mind isn't it ?

Should we have the US Dollar ? Euro ? Pound ? None of which we control or can just choose to have.

It's like explaining things to a child speaking to you.

[caledonia]

2 minutes ago, afc_blockhead said:

Haha of course it COULD be independent. What do you even think you are saying here? ?

You or I COULD win the lottery. 

You COULD stick in your head in a bucket of pig shit.

Could doesn't mean it happens, it also doesn't mean it should.

Jesus, you are stupider than anyone I've ever seen on here. Shoofta is more intelligent than you ?

So glad your beginning to crack