Scottish Independence Referendum 2

[The Gee Man]

17 minutes ago, Jocky Balboa said:

The chances of a Unionist party winning the popular vote in Scotland again are minimal. The Tories in particular haven't done so since the 1950's and never will again. They threw everything but the kitchen sink in the Kim Jong Butch era, but mustered a pathetic quarter of the vote. That is their ceiling.

 

Conversely, the SNP have failed utterly to capitalise on all of the above. Sturgeon must go, or independence is going absolutely nowhere.

I’m not sure conservatives are the danger a rejigged labour vote might split some votes. Snp lose seats and the other 4 parties take few here and few there, but enough to cause some issues. The more reliant snp are on the greens is a dent to their power

[caledonia]

1 hour ago, The Gee Man said:

I’m not sure conservatives are the danger a rejigged labour vote might split some votes. Snp lose seats and the other 4 parties take few here and few there, but enough to cause some issues. The more reliant snp are on the greens is a dent to their power

The labour party are sinking faster than the titanic in Scotland.

If anything the SNP will start to lose seats to other independence party’s if they continue with the soft approach as just asking and promising.

 

[The Gee Man]

3 hours ago, caledonia said:

The labour party are sinking faster than the titanic in Scotland.

If anything the SNP will start to lose seats to other independence party’s if they continue with the soft approach as just asking and promising.

 

Last polling I believe had labour increasing their vote, Tory obviously sliding. Alba is a curve ball in the election but still think it’s brand is a bit off. Greens are the king makers for snp but as I say imo this causes issues

[Ten Caat]

SNP aren't in a precarious situation but Labour are certainly improving under Sarwar's leadership. I'd expect them to pick up 4 or 5 seats minimum at the next Holyrood election. If they come at the Tories' expense then overall there's no change to the nationalist coalition majority. However if they come against the SNP/Greens then their majority starts to look wafer thin. The good news is if the Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone of the Greens) decides to hang up her gavel. Theoretically we'd have come full circle since the first ever Scots Parliament in 1999...so it should be a Lib Dem who gets the gig. If they don't stand someone for it (lack of numbers) then it should be a Labour or Tory next in line. No matter what, it reduces the No backing parties representation by 1

[Edwin Starr]

On 12/8/2022 at 10:52 PM, Ten Caat said:

Pete Wishart's resignation letter from his shadow front bench role to Stephen Flynn shows that the Westminster SNP group are bitterly split. Questions why Flynn sought to replace Blackford at all. Clearly Flynn is heading up a group that have deep misgivings about Sturgeon's leadership. 

This is all a gift to the Tories and Labour just at a time when the opinion polls, in the aftermath of English judges ruling that Holyrood can't hold a referendum without Westminster say so, hit record highs of 56% in favour of independence

Spot on Ten Cat it's how I see it .👍

[Edwin Starr]

13 hours ago, caledonia said:

The labour party are sinking faster than the titanic in Scotland.

If anything the SNP will start to lose seats to other independence party’s if they continue with the soft approach as just asking and promising.

 

That sort approach is looking a bit submissive .

 

We need to get right into them . 

Westminster MPs just laugh at us and get away with it .

That court ruling proves they rule with an iron fist.

[manboobs109]

12 minutes ago, Edwin Starr said:

That sort approach is looking a bit submissive .

 

We need to get right into them . 

Westminster MPs just laugh at us and get away with it .

That court ruling proves they rule with an iron fist.

Iron fist? C'mon Buc.

[Redforever86]

2 hours ago, manboobs109 said:

Iron fist? C'mon Buc.

Explain why he’s wrong? 
 

They are denying our right to democracy. 

[sigh]

22 minutes ago, Redforever86 said:

Explain why he’s wrong? 
 

They are denying our right to democracy. 

We have democracy - we vote in the General Elections for the UK, we also vote in the elections for the Scottish Parliament - you may not like the results but we do live in a democracy

[The Gee Man]

13 minutes ago, sigh said:

We have democracy - we vote in the General Elections for the UK, we also vote in the elections for the Scottish Parliament - you may not like the results but we do live in a democracy

We do vote in UK general elections but it’s a poor show that if we as a nation (Scotland) decided not too. It would make absolutely no difference to any results 

[Reed or deed]

17 minutes ago, sigh said:

We have democracy - we vote in the General Elections for the UK, we also vote in the elections for the Scottish Parliament - you may not like the results but we do live in a democracy

No we don’t.

We’re not allowed to vote for our own independence.

[The Gee Man]

2 minutes ago, Reed or deed said:

No we don’t.

We’re not allowed to vote for our own independence.

We can vote it’s just not legitimate 

[Reed or deed]

Just now, The Gee Man said:

We can vote it’s just not legitimate 

I’ll say again.

We are not allowed to vote for our own independence. (In an apparent voluntary union)

We are not being allowed to vote for our own independence by the english, who apparently own scotland. 
Which is not a matter of democracy.

[The Gee Man]

It’s the Supreme Court who have said by the current legislation we can’t legally hold a referendum. I would say we should be able to do so when the time is right. Not sure if now is( but I would always vote yes). You could argue it’s the highest form of democracy that there is not one person saying no, but our Highest level of law etc. I think it depends on the discussion you wish to have 

[Reed or deed]

Just now, Bad_Mobby said:

Need a Scottish Republican Army to start fucking with the guffs

Where do we sign?

Could call it the politics = lolitics squad.

[manboobs109]

1 hour ago, Redforever86 said:

Explain why he’s wrong? 
 

They are denying our right to democracy. 

I wouldn't describe months of legal argument in court as an "iron fist"

We had a vote in 2014.

[Matt Armstrong's Dog]

8 minutes ago, Bad_Mobby said:

Need a Scottish Republican Army to start fucking with the guffs

I thought there was one already called the SNLA, headed by Adam Busby?🤔

[The Gee Man]

11 minutes ago, Matt Armstrong's Dog said:

I thought there was one already called the SNLA, headed by Adam Busby?🤔

Disbanded I think 

[The Gee Man]

I do wonder if we won in 2014, and there was a movement just now to rejoin the union! If the current government in Scotland would allow another vote for democratic reasons or would be saying exactly what is being said just now, that it’s generational 

[caledonia]

46 minutes ago, Roberto said:

Democracy manifest.

Season 2 no bad

[manboobs109]

49 minutes ago, Bad_Mobby said:

And were told staying with the guffs was the only way to have EU membership 

The guffy cunts chopped the goalposts down 2 year later 

And the Yes side said that if the tories won a majority and England voted to leave we'd be out.

I want indy BTW just think the iron fist rhetoric is over dramatic.

[The Gee Man]

53 minutes ago, Bad_Mobby said:

And were told staying with the guffs was the only way to have EU membership 

The guffy cunts chopped the goalposts down 2 year later 

There was still always the argument that if we left UK we would no longer be in the EU, they certainly hinted we would have to reapply and then we would be using the euro and all it’s complications 

[manboobs109]

The Brexit stuff, and the SNP reaction to it has fucked a lot of their arguments unfortunately.

We'd need at least 2 referendums to get it through and even then there would be massive hurdles.

Needs put to bed just now. Revisit in next parliament with new SNP leader. Sturgeon is an obstacle to it now, too much baggage.

[The Gee Man]

2 minutes ago, Roberto said:

I would love to see how we would be placed right now if Scotland got independence in 2014.

We wouldn't be governed by pig fuckers and SNP wouldn't be in power either. Firmly believe we would be in better shape an we are now.

Hunch however, but my mind does wander to what if. Shambles of a country currently.

It’s an odd situation if you take independence out of the debate, would we vote for this current government on teaching/nhs/taxes/housing/ roads etc etc etc. I’m not sure we would 

[Ten Caat]

I'd imagine in an independent Scotland, where the SNP's main policy had been achieved so was no longer an issue....the SNP might propose a merger with Scottish Labour eventually, to ensure that a flukey Scottish Conservative ( well those that chose to stay rather than fucking off to England) could never ever occur.

Whether the unionist element in Labour would at some point start agitating for a referendum to re-join the UK is open to question though

[RAZOR]

Ironically, the quickest way to get rid of the SNP would be independence.

Liked the sound of the Republican Army. One step closer to the People's Republic of Aberdonia. Ye may gang faur and fare waur cafe at Brechin border control.

[NEM]

5 minutes ago, RAZOR said:

Ironically, the quickest way to get rid of the SNP would be independence.

Liked the sound of the Republican Army. One step closer to the People's Republic of Aberdonia. Ye may gang faur and fare waur cafe at Brechin border control.

That's at Stracathro and we'd be wanting the border much further North than thon

[Edwin Starr]

For me please correct me if I'm wrong .

Westminster control the press .

 

They control the BBC .

 

They control Scotland for example say when we are allowed another referendum.

The only reason why we were allowed to vote in 2014 is because we were only on 27% and no had next to no chance  but when the YES took the lead they panicked and offered us 3 new powers did they fulfill them.

Where in the world would you have a country telling another country when you can leave the union .👍

If England wanted independence would they ask Scotland if they could leave .?

It's obvious to me Scotland's massive amount of resources mean far too much for them to let us go.👍

 

It's a prison alright ball and chain stuff . 

Sorry manboobs but it's how I see it.🙄

 

 

 

[Ten Caat]

4 hours ago, Edwin Starr said:

For me please correct me if I'm wrong .

Westminster control the press .

 

They control the BBC .

 

They control Scotland for example say when we are allowed another referendum.

The only reason why we were allowed to vote in 2014 is because we were only on 27% and no had next to no chance  but when the YES took the lead they panicked and offered us 3 new powers did they fulfill them.

Where in the world would you have a country telling another country when you can leave the union .👍

If England wanted independence would they ask Scotland if they could leave .?

It's obvious to me Scotland's massive amount of resources mean far too much for them to let us go.👍

 

It's a prison alright ball and chain stuff . 

Sorry manboobs but it's how I see it.🙄

 

 

 

Bang on the money

[manboobs109]

4 hours ago, Edwin Starr said:

For me please correct me if I'm wrong .

Westminster control the press .

 

They control the BBC .

 

They control Scotland for example say when we are allowed another referendum.

The only reason why we were allowed to vote in 2014 is because we were only on 27% and no had next to no chance  but when the YES took the lead they panicked and offered us 3 new powers did they fulfill them.

Where in the world would you have a country telling another country when you can leave the union .👍

If England wanted independence would they ask Scotland if they could leave .?

It's obvious to me Scotland's massive amount of resources mean far too much for them to let us go.👍

 

It's a prison alright ball and chain stuff . 

Sorry manboobs but it's how I see it.🙄

 

 

 

It's a bit over the top saying "iron fist" though. We had a chance to vote for it and bottled it. We voted to stay part of the Westminster system so it's up to that system, where we have elected representatives, to decide on constitutional matters.

Like it or not it's undeniable the majority voted for that.

Like I say they need to give it a rest for a while, do the job they are elected to do and maybe in the next parliament with a new PM and maybe FM it can be revisited and negotiated but it's madness trying nonsense like using the GE as a proxy referendum.