"hillsborough Files To Be Released"

[Poodler]

31 years today since the Valley Parade fire.

Didn't the Bradford Mayor once tell the Hillsborough grievers to 'get over it'?

[Henry]

Didn't the Bradford Mayor once tell the Hillsborough grievers to 'get over it'?

 

Aye, something about grieving quietly and with dignity as well.

[360]

 

Aye, something about grieving quietly and with dignity as well.

 

If they had just done that though, the truth would not have been found.

 

#jft96 #solidaritywiththe96

[beer gut]

I do not care what anyone says and it is certainly easy for me to preach with the benefit of hindsight. I am not saying they set out to kill anyone. But what some were doing was still fucking dangerous. Its the reason we have no terraces now, and certainly those damnable pens 30 years later. To see those particular actions - yes common at most grounds of the day - and to still hear a collective claim that they weren't in any way responsible for the deaths (not the unlawful killings, just the simple, horrible fact that people died) still troubles me.

 

 

It's the organisers job to make sure the event is safe. Personally i think the FA are just as culpable as the cops for allowing the game to be played at Hillsborough.

 

What is being said saying about the fans being even partly responsible i cant get my head round it. Here's a hypothetical scenario for arguments sake to put your argument into context:

 

You and your mates head to pittodrie for a semi final. You have only ever been there a few times if ever. You and your mates have been in the pub for a few pints before the game and you leave the pub just in time to be in the ground for kick off. . You head down merkland road and its hoachin busy. For some reason the fans are being allowed into south stand through one of the larger exit gates. You follow the crowd (remember no seats in this situation) and try to get into a position to watch the match No one is directing you and there are no signs telling you where to go or nobody on the tannoy giving instructions. When you get into the ground the stand is already full to bursting but the police are still letting folk in behind you so you and your mates think fuck it, it must be ok and you go take up your position to watch the match. More and more people enter behind you and The result is people are crushed. Are you saying that you as a fan should be held partly responsible for that situation happening?. It's a fucking ridiculous argument and is based on hatred of liverpool fans not on common sense IMO.

 

Standing at events is not dangerous if it is correctly organised. Look at all the music festivals, concerts etc for comparison. Getting rid of terracing was a smoke screen. That wasn't the reason people died at Hillsborough.

[zander]

Bridge of Don Bhoys??

I know one of them and whilst he's a good guy and what they did on Sunday was unexpected but nice they're is absolutely no need for the suggestion above.

No medals handed out for grief mongering.

 

Nae idea grief stricken morons of some description.

[Dynamo]

Its like a who's the bigger grief merchant competition between the two of them. I saw some tim comment on facebook about old Norman's funeral cortege passing Pittodrie. He suggested to his mate that they stand outside Pittodrie with their Celtic tops on to pay their respects. Fair play paying respects but what the fuck does Celtic or any other teams tops have to do with anything. Just one big look at me I'm a grief merchant.

 

The scouse cunt above has probably never worked a day in his life using Hillsborough as a case to claim DSS for depression.

 

I would be sickened if some tims or huns for that matter stood in my funeral procession in their club colours.

[zander]

I would be sickened if some tims or huns for that matter stood in my funeral procession in their club colours.

 

As would I. By all means they can come pay their respects to me but don't dare come wearing the colours I grew up hating. Id hope those present would deliver a few kicks.

 

Funerals should be about paying respects not wearing football colours.

[strachanmcgheegoal]

It's the organisers job to make sure the event is safe. Personally i think the FA are just as culpable as the cops for allowing the game to be played at Hillsborough.

 

What is being said saying about the fans being even partly responsible i cant get my head round it. Here's a hypothetical scenario for arguments sake to put your argument into context:

 

You and your mates head to pittodrie for a semi final. You have only ever been there a few times if ever. You and your mates have been in the pub for a few pints before the game and you leave the pub just in time to be in the ground for kick off. . You head down merkland road and its hoachin busy. For some reason the fans are being allowed into south stand through one of the larger exit gates. You follow the crowd (remember no seats in this situation) and try to get into a position to watch the match No one is directing you and there are no signs telling you where to go or nobody on the tannoy giving instructions. When you get into the ground the stand is already full to bursting but the police are still letting folk in behind you so you and your mates think fuck it, it must be ok and you go take up your position to watch the match. More and more people enter behind you and The result is people are crushed. Are you saying that you as a fan should be held partly responsible for that situation happening?. It's a fucking ridiculous argument and is based on hatred of liverpool fans not on common sense IMO.

 

Standing at events is not dangerous if it is correctly organised. Look at all the music festivals, concerts etc for comparison. Getting rid of terracing was a smoke screen. That wasn't the reason people died at Hillsborough.

Firstly I have no issue with Liverpool fans, just to be clear. I strongly object to your inference that that somehow colours my judgement.

 

I'm not a massive gig goer so not particularly fair that I draw a comparison. Those gigs that I have attended I've been on a level floor - football fields or stadiums mainly - and, as a rule, I have never experienced that excessive surging back and fore that for some reason seemed to happen on football terraces on which of course you have the added disadvantage of being on a slope. I notice in your Pittodrie example there is no crowd movement. You imply everyone comes in, stands still and it is simply the shere volume of numbers, like pressing the plunger on a syringe that causes the build up of pressure. I agree that is by far and away the majority issue that causes the situation and it is the authorities failure to prevent, react to and control the situation that gives rise to the deaths. As an aside that was, of course, the point the guy was making about how normally you filter out to the sides to find "your level." To continue the gig metaphor the moshers stay in the middle and the less hardcore move to the periphery, which in this situation the fencing didn't allow. I agree completely that that brings in the question for the FA as to whether the ground was ever safe in the first place.

 

To return to my point though, if you are saying that the surging is occurring purely, 100%, because of the excessive numbers involved then fine we will beg to differ. I am saying that the surging happens in such a situation (NOTE NOT SPECIFICALLY LIVERPOOL FANS) partly, and bluntly, because some prick thinks its funny to push the guy in front. What we refer to nowadays essentially as a bounce.

 

There's a reason why competent people in charge don't like that excessive surging effect to happen. Its not because they expect you should be capable of sitting on your arse and behaving like choirboys albeit there are regrettably those, like Duckenfield, who clearly did and do hold such a view. Its because they have the common sense, the experience, to say if you have a set number of people (too many people as it turned out in the Hillsborough situation) in a given space and there's a movement of people from point A to point B then people, usually little weak people, will get crushed at point B. Without any kind of safety valve it is inevitable.

 

The guys causing the surging aren't doing anything unlawful. They did not contribute to the unlawful nature of the deaths. That's what the jury unanimously judged and, from what I know, I agree with them. I completely take your point that it was up to the collective organisers to ensure that 'normal fan behaviour' could be accommodated at the event and yes the terracing surge at the time could be considered as normal fan behaviour. Fuck me, the ex para Policeman admitted to having an incontinence inducing mental breakdown on that very point - that he was there to ensure they could do that safely.

 

I don't think we'll ever agree on this Beer Gut as I guess it comes down to what one would consider 'normal' behaviour at a game at that time in of course, thankfully, a very different environment to the games day experience of now. The point remains that what ever you do has consequences though and it is this complete and absolute seemingly untouchable removal of any possible shade of responsibility that I don't think will ever completely leave the whole discussion.

 

Sorry.

 

Edit - sorry, meant to add that I disagree the removal of terracing was a smokescreen incidentally. It was inevitable. If Hillsborough had not happened then it was clearly going to happen at some point regardless of the clubs involved.

[Pash]

Firstly I have no issue with Liverpool fans, just to be clear. I strongly object to your inference that that somehow colours my judgement.

 

I'm not a massive gig goer so not particularly fair that I draw a comparison. Those gigs that I have attended I've been on a level floor - football fields or stadiums mainly - and, as a rule, I have never experienced that excessive surging back and fore that for some reason seemed to happen on football terraces on which of course you have the added disadvantage of being on a slope. I notice in your Pittodrie example there is no crowd movement. You imply everyone comes in, stands still and it is simply the shere volume of numbers, like pressing the plunger on a syringe that causes the build up of pressure. I agree that is by far and away the majority issue that causes the situation and it is the authorities failure to prevent, react to and control the situation that gives rise to the deaths. As an aside that was, of course, the point the guy was making about how normally you filter out to the sides to find "your level." To continue the gig metaphor the moshers stay in the middle and the less hardcore move to the periphery, which in this situation the fencing didn't allow. I agree completely that that brings in the question for the FA as to whether the ground was ever safe in the first place.

 

To return to my point though, if you are saying that the surging is occurring purely, 100%, because of the excessive numbers involved then fine we will beg to differ. I am saying that the surging happens in such a situation (NOTE NOT SPECIFICALLY LIVERPOOL FANS) partly, and bluntly, because some prick thinks its funny to push the guy in front. What we refer to nowadays essentially as a bounce.

 

There's a reason why competent people in charge don't like that excessive surging effect to happen. Its not because they expect you should be capable of sitting on your arse and behaving like choirboys albeit there are regrettably those, like Duckenfield, who clearly did and do hold such a view. Its because they have the common sense, the experience, to say if you have a set number of people (too many people as it turned out in the Hillsborough situation) in a given space and there's a movement of people from point A to point B then people, usually little weak people, will get crushed at point B. Without any kind of safety valve it is inevitable.

 

The guys causing the surging aren't doing anything unlawful. They did not contribute to the unlawful nature of the deaths. That's what the jury unanimously judged and, from what I know, I agree with them. I completely take your point that it was up to the collective organisers to ensure that 'normal fan behaviour' could be accommodated at the event and yes the terracing surge at the time could be considered as normal fan behaviour. Fuck me, the ex para Policeman admitted to having an incontinence inducing mental breakdown on that very point - that he was there to ensure they could do that safely.

 

I don't think we'll ever agree on this Beer Gut as I guess it comes down to what one would consider 'normal' behaviour at a game at that time in of course, thankfully, a very different environment to the games day experience of now. The point remains that what ever you do has consequences though and it is this complete and absolute seemingly untouchable removal of any possible shade of responsibility that I don't think will ever completely leave the whole discussion.

 

Sorry.

 

What a load of fucking crap.

[Poodler]

http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-west-brom-jft96-liverpool-hillsborough-seats-3111312.aspx

 

 

 

GRIEF

 

GRIEF

 

CONTINUE THE GRIEF

 

West Bromwich Albion will on Sunday honour their pledge to salute the courage and tenacity of the Hillsborough victims’ families.

Albion have arranged a pre-match tribute before the Barclays Premier League finale against Liverpool gets under way following the recent verdicts which found the 96 victims of the 1989 tragedy were unlawfully killed.

Premier League clubs showed the solidarity of the football family in the first fixtures after the April 26 verdict but Albion chose to wait until Liverpool's visit to The Hawthorns.

The Club have replaced 96 blue seats in the visiting fans section with the red of Liverpool, each to remain unoccupied and each to carry a name of one of the victims.

The Club have also produced a video which will be played shortly before kick-off on Sunday.

And Baggies captain Darren Fletcher and Liverpool-born striker Rickie Lambert will complete the salute by laying a floral tribute in front of the Liverpool fans following the introduction of the teams.

Read more at http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-west-brom-jft96-liverpool-hillsborough-seats-3111312.aspx#MWGcsjuJ8C3uRdvU.99

[King Street Loon]

I read or heard somewhere (can't remember which) that Glasgow City Council want King Kenny knighted for all the funerals he went to and for all that he did during the time.

Da fuck has it got to do with Glasgow.

[The Boofon]

http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-west-brom-jft96-liverpool-hillsborough-seats-3111312.aspx

 

 

 

GRIEF

 

GRIEF

 

CONTINUE THE GRIEF

 

West Bromwich Albion will on Sunday honour their pledge to salute the courage and tenacity of the Hillsborough victims families.

 

Albion have arranged a pre-match tribute before the Barclays Premier League finale against Liverpool gets under way following the recent verdicts which found the 96 victims of the 1989 tragedy were unlawfully killed.

 

Premier League clubs showed the solidarity of the football family in the first fixtures after the April 26 verdict but Albion chose to wait until Liverpool's visit to The Hawthorns.

 

The Club have replaced 96 blue seats in the visiting fans section with the red of Liverpool, each to remain unoccupied and each to carry a name of one of the victims.

 

The Club have also produced a video which will be played shortly before kick-off on Sunday.

 

And Baggies captain Darren Fletcher and Liverpool-born striker Rickie Lambert will complete the salute by laying a floral tribute in front of the Liverpool fans following the introduction of the teams.

Read more at http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-west-brom-jft96-liverpool-hillsborough-seats-3111312.aspx#MWGcsjuJ8C3uRdvU.99

Jesus. Why?

 

 

Mental. What is the fucking point in that?

 

Really.

[Old Wing Stand]

I read or heard somewhere (can't remember which) that Glasgow City Council want King Kenny knighted for all the funerals he went to and for all that he did during the time.

Da fuck has it got to do with Glasgow.

They are in competition with Liverpool for the title of Self Pity City !

[daytripping]

Never their fault.....will they ever learn.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LQryL6RGnY

[strachanmcgheegoal]

Interesting that the retard chose to cover this story from 7.30 ish online posted at 8.19 probably with the same video particularly given post Hillsborough sensitivities. Bet the English papers weren't so quick off the mark. But then sing a few songs north of the border or worse produce a heavily critical report and it's fucking omertà time!

[Henry]

 

I see there's been a totally proportionate social media response to a man wearing a t-shirt at the weekend.

[Tommy]

 

I see there's been a totally proportionate social media response to a man wearing a t-shirt at the weekend.

 

That's not in the beer garden at The Cavern.

[vanderark14]

Its made the news on the radio, the guy has been arrested.

[boboisared]

How can you possibly be lifted for that?

[vanderark14]

How can you possibly be lifted for that?

 

According to the radio its something to do with public disorder. Its in really bad taste but his arrest confirms that our freedoms really don't exist

[boboisared]

 

According to the radio its something to do with public disorder. Its in really bad taste but his arrest confirms that our freedoms really don't exist

I agree, poor taste and you'd expect the boy to get a hiding. Arresting him seems OTT.

[Bluto10]

I agree, poor taste and you'd expect the boy to get a hiding. Arresting him seems OTT.

Don't think it is.

If Hboro meant something to you this would've incredibly offensive and hurtful.

Just cause it's not a smack in the face doesn't mean it isn't out of order.

[Poodler]

How is it 'public disorder' though? Actually, what is public disorder?

[The Boofon]

How can you possibly be lifted for that?

Crimes against fashion?

[The Boofon]

I agree, poor taste and you'd expect the boy to get a hiding. Arresting him seems OTT.

Surprised he's not been murdered. They have previous.

[Bluto10]

How is it 'public disorder' though? Actually, what is public disorder?

Catch all term min; wouldn't worry about it

[boboisared]

Don't think it is.

If Hboro meant something to you this would've incredibly offensive and hurtful.

Just cause it's not a smack in the face doesn't mean it isn't out of order.

You don't know me Bloots. The folk on here who do know me offline would let you know that I wouldn't want someone lifted if they were mocking my dead family.

 

I wouldn't be adverse to someone hurting them though.

[Bluto10]

You don't know me Bloots. The folk on here who do know me offline would let you know that I wouldn't want someone lifted if they were mocking my dead family.

 

I wouldn't be adverse to someone hurting them though.

Wasn't talking about you, specifically.

It was meant generally.

 

Personally this tshirts doesn't bother me but the law doesn't advocate 'hurting' people and thus it has nowhere left to turn than lifting people u see general laws like breach and disorder.

[boboisared]

I see Liverpool fans have been sending loads of different shite to the house of the boy wearing the offensive tshirt. Wonder if they'll do the same to the scousers who mock the Munich air disaster?

[SheepieBaaBaa]

How is it 'public disorder' though? Actually, what is public disorder?

Incitement to violence I suppose. Anything that is viewed as likely to provoke violence is a breach of the peace and a public order offence.

It's a slippery slope though. Is walking into a "Rangers pub" in Govan in Aberdeen colours a public order offence?

stealing Neil Lennon's unicorn?

Where does it end? The boy should either get a shoeing or not, shouldn't be police involved.