"hillsborough Files To Be Released"

[RTYD]

Surprised that fans behaviour was deemed not to have been a contributory factor.

Me too. We remember the days in 70's/80's when pissed up fans would surge at gates, etc. However small, their behaviour must have been a factor. Not those who died but those who took advantage of the gates being opened.

[Redstar]

I'd say the cops covered it up with help of some people in the government. It will be interesting to see what happens next.

A wild guess...Claims Direct will be very busy.

[The Boofon]

The fans behaviour outside the stadium has been broadcast many times.

That was not fabricated.

Ticketless fans admitted that they used the moment to get in.

Totally agree that there was a cover up in respect of evidence and justice has been served.

 

 

Indeed. There were fans there who were at least partly to blame for this no matter how much they try and whitewash that out of history.

 

Shameful cover up indeed but has to be accepted that fans played at least some part in all of this.

 

They'll be claiming the Italians weakened the wall next.

[DelMonte]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hillsborough-disaster-footballs-most-harrowing-7836290

 

An interesting account of what happened.

[360]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hillsborough-disaster-footballs-most-harrowing-7836290

 

An interesting account of what happened.

 

An even better account here:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/26/hillsborough-disaster-deadly-mistakes-and-lies-that-lasted-decades

[beer gut]

 

 

Indeed. There were fans there who were at least partly to blame for this no matter how much they try and whitewash that out of history.

 

Shameful cover up indeed but has to be accepted that fans played at least some part in all of this.

 

They'll be claiming the Italians weakened the wall next.

So a jury finds the fans not resposible but you still think they are. In what way did the fans cause the crush?

[DelMonte]

Also after 293 days in court and seeing over 600 witnesses the answer to Q.7 was No.

 

I'm sure it's the correct verdict.

[tommo1903]

The jury were probably scared for their lives.

[The Boofon]

So a jury finds the fans not resposible but you still think they are. In what way did the fans cause the crush?

By melting into the ground in their hundreds without tickets and squeezing the stand way over capacity.

[beer gut]

By melting into the ground in their hundreds without tickets and squeezing the stand way over capacity.

Who let them in?

[The Cockney Don]

Never forget that day, was attending this match at the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aAf9saWYYI

 

When the news was filtering through, the atmosphere changed somewhat.

Terrible Terrible events at Hillsborough.

South Yorkshire Police have always been cunts and surely fucked up.

Liverpool Fans were well known though especially through their successful years for trying to bunk into grounds, seen it with me own eyes.

But the blame has to lie with the Old Bill.

[360]

Here is what the founder of "Wings Over Scotland" thinks about Hillsborough:

 

[The Cockney Don]

We(Tottenham) nearly had the same thing happen years earlier, many were injured, old bill pushing folk back in to the crush.

Thankfully i was in the upper tier with me old man.

 

[DelMonte]

By melting into the ground in their hundreds without tickets and squeezing the stand way over capacity.

Not having tickets wasn't the problem. The problem was that the gate was open for a certain area after the bottle neck outside. When this happened people went in the gate and it caused the crush. The people coming in had no idea how crushed the people were.

 

There wasn't too much people there, it was too much people put into a certain area.

[zander]

Here is what the founder of "Wings Over Scotland" thinks about Hillsborough:

 

No doubt be using todays verdict as a tool to blame the Tories.

[strachanmcgheegoal]

The fans role was always going to be the sticking point. The old bill have fucked up royally for absolute certain. I have some sympathy for the tardiness of the ambulance guys to pile In since they were no doubt being fed the line by the plod that there was trouble, as was commonplace in that era. The cover up following is hardly impressive either. But the gate was opened to release the crush outside (completely wrongly in my opinion ) and the arguement therefore goes that they (the fans) weren't responsible for said crush. Not majority responsible for sure. No issue with that. But completely exonerated? Really?

 

I guess the problem is the inability to collectively blame the fans. No-one is blaming the 96 for certain and there's no question they paid a heavy price. No-one is (apart from the Sun and bedfellow Thatcher) blaming ALL of the fans either. But are you equally telling me no-one was at fault anywhere, ever?

 

All actions have consequences. Not just the ones you don't like.

[daytripping]

Predictable verdict, no Jury in England was ever going to say otherwise but the fact of the matter was fan behaviour caused this, the police had no way of predicting this would happen and were fearful that fans outside were going to die, damned if you do..........

 

If ticketless fans had not tried to get in this wouldn't have happened.

 

The merseyside grief brigade are the only winners in this sorry saga, it should have been put to bed many years ago. Perhaps now they can move on and campaign for justice for the Juventus fans.

[DelMonte]

Predictable verdict, no Jury in England was ever going to say otherwise but the fact of the matter was fan behaviour caused this, the police had no way of predicting this would happen and were fearful that fans outside were going to die, damned if you do..........

 

If ticketless fans had not tried to get in this wouldn't have happened.

 

The merseyside grief brigade are the only winners in this sorry saga, it should have been put to bed many years ago. Perhaps now they can move on and campaign for justice for the Juventus fans.

Guessing you haven't read up on it? Read the two articles posted.

[tutankamun]

The merseyside grief brigade are the only winners in this sorry saga, it should have been put to bed many years ago. Perhaps now they can move on and campaign for justice for the Juventus fans.

They won't move on, this verdict is just the end of the beginning. Criminal charges will be demanded next.

 

As for the Juve fans, did they not get justice? People have already done time for Heysel and I don't think the Juve fans were blamed for it, unlike the Scousers at Hillsborough.

[zander]

Guessing you haven't read up on it? Read the two articles posted.

I'm believing dayts on this one several years terrace warfare over any journalists opinion.

[Redstar]

I'm believing dayts on this one several years terrace warfare over any journalists opinion.

Agreed...DT is telling it like it is...no need to look further.

[strachanmcgheegoal]

Having fallen foul of the grief police on this one before Dayts the problem was not ticketless fans per se any more than they were a problem at any other game, rather that it was poor police corralling of fans through too small a turnstyle area. But it is a brave statement to say the gate was opened to relieve a completely spontaneous crush that resulted from said poor corralling and for no other fan related reason whatsoever, that is all. Majority of blame for tragedy lies with police for sure. Apparently some blame lies with ambulance service for failure to respond. Again no arguement. From what I know of the day I simply don't buy that fans conduct was completely and utterly blameless.

[DelMonte]

Having fallen foul of the grief police on this one before Dayts the problem was not ticketless fans per se any more than they were a problem at any other game, rather that it was poor police corralling of fans through too small a turnstyle area. But it is a brave statement to say the gate was opened to relieve a completely spontaneous crush that resulted from said poor corralling and for no other fan related reason whatsoever, that is all. Majority of blame for tragedy lies with police for sure. Apparently some blame lies with ambulance service for failure to respond. Again no arguement. From what I know of the day I simply don't buy that fans conduct was completely and utterly blameless.

A jury who were at it for 293 days did. End of the day it's the people who were there and ticketless who know but I don't think that was the problem from what I read. Just going by what I've heard, I wasn't even born at the time of the event.

[strachanmcgheegoal]

Exactly and that was my point. That I was surprised that they came to a unanimous verdict (I assume it was unanimous of course but again that's maybe the reporting) specifically regarding the charge of fan conduct being contributory not being upheld. The police are to blame the fans (taken in entirety) are not. Fine, I get that. The police are completely to blame and the fans are completely innocent? That's the bit I find surprising especially if you go after the head copper (whom I think is pan bread anyway) as they no doubt will and say "right you fucked up and made a mistake with disastrous consequences but that doesn't matter because you should have known better so we're going to have you anyway." Hopefully you can see there's a bit of a leap being taken there that seems to be being specifically stopped from happening the other way.

[strachanmcgheegoal]

To try to use an example.

 

One set of neds organises and sets about another set of neds. Unfortunately in the ensuing melee a wee loon walking to the sweet shop gets trampled and killed. The one copper in attendance is powerless to do anything against the 50 strong scrap.

 

Who's to blame? The copper or the neds? My answer would be neither directly but the neds have responsibility (but not culpability) for the death.

 

Right. Now assume the coppers got wind of the ensuing squabble and actually there were 100 of them hiding round the corner when the incident occurs. For whatever reason they don't intervene when the tragedy happens. Culpability is still not clear but the burden of proof now falls on the coppers decision not to intervene since they have a duty of care not just to the opposing neds but also to the wee loon sweetie munching by stander. The blame/responsibility shifts. But does it shift 100% categorically away from the neds? That's what I'm asking.

 

And before anyone starts yes fighting yoofs is probably the worst possible example I could have used for this particular question!

[daytripping]

Guessing you haven't read up on it? Read the two articles posted.

 

I read the article, stopped at the part where it said no Liverpool fans were drunk, whitewash framing the police while painting the fans lilly white, I watched a lot of football at that time and can assure you the scousers were not the happy go lucky souls they're being painted out to be.

 

It was a huge game, as per most clubs including ours most of the crowd will have been pissed, on this occasion many ticketless as well.

[daytripping]

They won't move on, this verdict is just the end of the beginning. Criminal charges will be demanded next.

 

As for the Juve fans, did they not get justice? People have already done time for Heysel and I don't think the Juve fans were blamed for it, unlike the Scousers at Hillsborough.

 

Scousers were never going to be happy unless they got prosecutions, in both disasters it was probably stadium design/condition that was the main contributor not one single person or a decision made by someone, the police couldn't win, if fans had died outside they'd be getting told the gates should have opened.

[daytripping]

I'm believing dayts on this one several years terrace warfare over any journalists opinion.

 

It actually was terrace warfare in those days, scousers being amongst the worst, it no doubt contributed to the way the police acted regarding football crowds. IMO shit happens, a lot of things went wrong from as I said stadium design, police making split second decisions under duress, pissed up ticketless fans, locking up an old retired copper won't bring anyone back, the legacy of those who died is safer stadia Worldwide, it should be left at that.

 

As someone said this will now boil down to hard cash and lawsuits against the police, what many would have really been after.

 

BTW Holding the inquiry 20 odd miles down the road from Liverpool was never ever going to allow a fair process to occur, it should have been held in London or Scotland, getting an impartial jury no doubt under severe pressure to bring the right verdict would have been almost impossible in Warrington.

[daytripping]

They died needlessly due to incompetence of the police. Those are the facts.

 

A jury found OJ innocent but we all know he did it, they do get it wrong.

 

I'm actually glad this is the verdict given, imagine the scousers if the police had not been found to blame, can almost hear their nasal whining giving it large.

[tutankamun]

the police couldn't win, if fans had died outside they'd be getting told the gates should have opened.

 

The police aren't supposed to 'win' they're just supposed to do their job properly. If they had opened the gate AND shut the tunnel to the central pens the game would have probably passed without incident. And it's unbelievable that they didn't delay KO.

 

Also they didn't have to systematically lie for a quarter of a century about what happened, thereby criminally compounding their original incompetence.