Crossbow Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 If they liquidate the club, they'd get next to nothing anyway. They would get a large percentage of what assets remained. But NOT the heritable property - that is the point of a secured loan but surely the debts are connected with the heritable property (all those peers selling their land to pay death duties hasd heritable property - didn't delay the taxman one second) and come right aliong with them - Whyte may get the property if he can show he is owed the money and that he hasn't pinched it - no one has seen the accounts and that in itself is highly suspicious. I'd be gobsmacked if CW is anywhere near a phoenix club which I'm sure will appear if required. Link to comment
Site Sponsor RTYD Posted February 14, 2012 Site Sponsor Share Posted February 14, 2012 I'm not saying for one second that they could or do care about Rangers. Simply that the taxman cannot take cash that does not exist. If they are liquidated, owing, for the sake of argument, Link to comment
Dandyesque Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Yes but it is a newco so the SPL should not allow them into the league. Additionally the players will be sold or released. True and true. However, remember that the SPL are a distinct organisation from both the SFA and the SFL and will therefore do whatever they feel suits them best. If the imbeciles that run Scottish clubs feel that letting Rangers Newco straight back into the league suits them financially, they will most likely do so. As for players, if Rangers Newco (most likely Glasgow Rangers FC as that name is nowhere on official documentation) does go straight back into the league, they will have income of around Link to comment
Foster14 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Make no mistake, we are reliant on Milne, Thomson, Petrie and the rest growing a set - hopefully Romanov will help.... Plus the fans of the other 10 clubs outside the OF being united in our stance and making it clear it would be unacceptable. Link to comment
Dandyesque Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Yes but the present company will have been liquidated. HMRC cannot be seen to allow a company to carry on having paid 10% of their debt to them. They would have to kill it off. Correct. Rangers FC plc will cease to exist. Glasgow Rangers plc will take it's place. Craig Whyte will either sell or rent Ibrox back to it. He makes money out of the whole deal, becasue he is an asset stripper - he strips the assets, the makes money out of them. Link to comment
Dandyesque Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Plus the fans of the other 10 clubs outside the OF being united in our stance and making it clear it would be unacceptable. The chairmen would come out with something along the lines of; "While we recognise that this decision will be unpopular with a large percentage of our supoport, we hope the fans will recognise that we had to act in the best interests of <insert club here>. We are dependant on TV revenue for a large percentage of our income and cutting back on our expenditure to make up the inevitable shortfall would be a very painful process, that we simpy cannot afford at this time. We also have to consider the wider benefit of the game at large in Scotland". All utter crap, but that's what they'll say. Link to comment
dj_bollocks Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Why should they be allowed into Division 3 ? Give their place to a Highland league club... I don't know the rules but surely just can't rock up to the SFA/SFL and say "We want in..." I hope all the other clubs have their moral compasses on when they all tell them to GTF... And if they get away with the tax I hope every sing non Rangers fan tax payer is apoplectic with rage that these cheats have effectively succeeded at tax evasion - hardly a great example to set given the predicament the country's currently in. If I don't pay tax I get punished, I want to see closure, jail time, no second chances and if they get away with it we riot ! (And I hope HMRC's fist isn't lubed when they go for the colon flicking... Link to comment
Dandyesque Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Why should they be allowed into Division 3 ? Give their place to a Highland league club... I don't know the rules but surely just can't rock up to the SFA/SFL and say "We want in..." I hope all the other clubs have their moral compasses on when they all tell them to GTF... And if they get away with the tax I hope every sing non Rangers fan tax payer is apoplectic with rage that these cheats have effectively succeeded at tax evasion - hardly a great example to set given the predicament the country's currently in. If I don't pay tax I get punished, I want to see closure, jail time, no second chances and if they get away with it we riot ! (And I hope HMRC's fist isn't lubed when they go for the colon flicking... You miss the point. HMRC would force their closure. But they are in no position to stop someone setting up a new football club and have no influence over the SPL. Neither do the SFL. The SPL is just the 12 clubs and they will act how they see fit. They have always chased the money in the past and I can't see that changing now. The only thing that might change is that they press for redistribution of the TV money and free sharing of the league's external income. Celtic will hate it, but may not have a choice - they'll instead press for a penalty that guarantees them 3 or 4 titles and before long, all will be back to normal. Glasgow Rangers will start without 50-odd league titles, but it will only be OF message-board users that will actually care - Rangers fans will see it as all one in the same, while Celtic fans will use it for point scoring in tit-for-tat. Link to comment
Dandyesque Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 If the heritable property is worth more than the debt though (which according to Rangers' balance sheet, it is sufficiently more) then I think the security will be challenged, especially since the security will not have been offered at arms length... EDIT: Rangers valuation of freehold property at 30 June 2010 - Link to comment
vanderark14 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I could see a riot down Pittodrie way or any other team stadium for that matter if the clubs vote Rangers back in. disagree I think you would see nothing but empty seats Link to comment
Dynamo Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 disagree I think you would see nothing but empty seats This. More empty seats than ever before. Link to comment
Foster14 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 This is the interesting bit. I don't for one second believe that that valuation is anything like correct. That is an inflated valuation for paper purposes and to make their accounts look a lot rosier than is actually the case. Murray Park is not worth much as it cannot be developed for residential purposes. Ibrox cannot be worth a great deal more than Pittodrie, particularly in the current climate - Aberdeen has a relatively buoyant market overall and it is near the beach, Uni, etc. Govan is a fucking dump. I reckon Link to comment
E-P-K Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 You miss the point. HMRC would force their closure. But they are in no position to stop someone setting up a new football club and have no influence over the SPL. Neither do the SFL. The SPL is just the 12 clubs and they will act how they see fit. They have always chased the money in the past and I can't see that changing now. The only thing that might change is that they press for redistribution of the TV money and free sharing of the league's external income. Celtic will hate it, but may not have a choice - they'll instead press for a penalty that guarantees them 3 or 4 titles and before long, all will be back to normal. Glasgow Rangers will start without 50-odd league titles, but it will only be OF message-board users that will actually care - Rangers fans will see it as all one in the same, while Celtic fans will use it for point scoring in tit-for-tat. IF Rangers are not in the SPL next year, or following years, this should be the moment the 11 non old firm teams in the league use the 11-1 voting system that has buggered them for years, to vote on equal share of TV money. Link to comment
Dandyesque Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 The valuation of a football stadium is based on the cost it would take to purchase and build again, which as you say, would inflate it above actual value to a third party, but not necessarilly to a new football club. I also don't see where ticketus would have advanced Link to comment
Dandyesque Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 IF Rangers are not in the SPL next year, or following years, this should be the moment the 11 non old firm teams in the league use the 11-1 voting system that has buggered them for years, to vote on equal share of TV money. If "ifs" and "ands" were pots and pans, there'd be no need for tinkers. Link to comment
Dandyesque Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 disagree I think you would see nothing but empty seats I'm sure the SPL Chairmen would be hoping for attendances to rise as the "possibility of CL football" seems more plausible than before. I think they'd be wrong though. I also think it's wrong to assume all club's attendances would be massively affected. It's not like anyone actually goes with any hope of winning the league, is it? Link to comment
Redmist1903 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 What in the name of the wee man What does that actually mean? Link to comment
NorthernLights24 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 HMRC moves to put Rangers into administration On Tuesday HMRC lodged the order with the Court of Session in Edinburgh calling for the court to appoint an administrator. The Court of Session confirmed to STV that the application is scheduled to be heard before a judge from midday on Tuesday. HMRC is due to make a statement on the steps of the court afterwards. The move comes after the Ibrox club had lodged its own notice of intent to appoint an administrator on Monday. The court will now have to decide whether the administrator should be appointed by Rangers or the tax authorities - with important implications for the future of the Glasgow-based club. Rangers are currently awaiting the result of a crucial tax case with HMRC, which owner Craig Whyte has confirmed could leave the club owing up to Link to comment
RUL Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Are hmrc likely to be successful? Link to comment
stumain Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 It is now PC to sing "We all agree THIS ibrox disaster IS Magic" Link to comment
Site Sponsor RTYD Posted February 14, 2012 Site Sponsor Share Posted February 14, 2012 IF Rangers are not in the SPL next year, or following years, this should be the moment the 11 non old firm teams in the league use the 11-1 voting system that has buggered them for years, to vote on equal share of TV money. Or no TV deal at all. Link to comment
sooth_stander Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Interesting happenings today, as if yesterday's weren't enough. If HMRC decide THEY will put Rangers into administration, whole new ball game, they appoint their team of administrators, and not Ranger's prefered team. Rangers could be finished much sooner then we thought Link to comment
RUL Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 So in other words, IF HMRC win the case, then that's it - and they'll be liquidised? I can't be arsed going over everything else. Tax guy on sky said it was irrelevant who put them into admin. says it appears hmrc will win case Link to comment
BrianFaePerth Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Tax guy on sky said it was irrelevant who put them into admin. says it appears hmrc will win case If this is the same HMRC who spent Link to comment
Dandyesque Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Are hmrc likely to be successful? And what difference would it make? I assume it means Rangers cannot now back out? All those who saw it as a tactical ploy by Whyte to negotiate have now clearly been shot down - they are going into administration whether he likes it or not. Surely the administrator has to do what is in the best interests of the creditors though? Rangers FC have an almost guaranteed income of Link to comment
Karl Fletcher Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 If this is the same HMRC who spent Link to comment
BrianFaePerth Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 This is so much different though, Byen. This is an open and shut case, make no mistake Aye, but time will tell. Link to comment
Foster14 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Surely the administrator has to do what is in the best interests of the creditors though? Rangers FC have an almost guaranteed income of Link to comment
K-9 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I'm sure the SPL Chairmen would be hoping for attendances to rise as the "possibility of CL football" seems more plausible than before. I think they'd be wrong though. I also think it's wrong to assume all club's attendances would be massively affected. It's not like anyone actually goes with any hope of winning the league, is it?We are about to lose our second champions league place so takes that right out of equation. And dropping so far down rankings now that teams will have to start early rounds in June!! Link to comment
vanderark14 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 We are about to lose our second champions league place so takes that right out of equation. And dropping so far down rankings now that teams will have to start early rounds in June!! Europe is a closed shop to clubs in this country unless they are willing to throw cash at their side to compete. Link to comment
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