Fraser Signs for Bournemouth

[Bamber]

Must say I am quite liking this hard nosed stance that the club is taking over contracts

 

Instead of just going on and on and on and making offer after offer they now seem to be saying

 

"Thats our offer take it or leave it" and then players seem to be shocked when they dont respond that the club removes the offer and expects the player to come back cap in hand to ask for the contract to be put back on the table

 

There does seem to be a trend emerging - same thing happened with Arnesson very quickly he was given a few options and then the club decided to pull the rug, you then had arnie's agent saying similar thins to Fraser's "oh we never said we didnt want to sign" etc etc

 

Yes there may be some pain to be had but if the club is showing that is not going to roll over in contrcat negotiation and the club is going to tell the players waht is happening instead of vice versa then it is getting my vote

[Gover]

Everyone agrees that he is a very good player but he has no experiance and in in terms of positional versitility he has none. In his small handfull of games he hasn't scored but looked exciting and got some assists. I am very happy our other youth players have extended their contracts ( Robertson and Shaughnessy especially ) they have the right idea. Fraser will have been offered a contract which the club felt a fair reflection. In actual fact the club were quoted as saying the best possible offer. His interview a few weeks ago suggested he had a good head on his shoulders so it was either meticulously crafted to make him look good or it is a true reflection and we are missing something. He might even just be a money grabbing little twat. It may be personal reasons. I think the reason he's getting all the negative reactions is down to the very little clarity and unprofessional way the club have handled the media.

The fact of the matter is he doesn't want to play for us and that to me merrits an instant Well get ti fuck then.

[fine-n-dandy]

Are you saying he does then?

 

 

No & you no i'm not saying that.

 

I think he deserves to be up there with all the other regular first teamers. A mid level wage

[Redstar]

Must say I am quite liking this hard nosed stance that the club is taking over contracts

 

Instead of just going on and on and on and making offer after offer they now seem to be saying

 

"Thats our offer take it or leave it" and then players seem to be shocked when they dont respond that the club removes the offer and expects the player to come back cap in hand to ask for the contract to be put back on the table

 

There does seem to be a trend emerging - same thing happened with Arnesson very quickly he was given a few options and then the club decided to pull the rug, you then had arnie's agent saying similar thins to Fraser's "oh we never said we didnt want to sign" etc etc

 

Yes there may be some pain to be had but if the club is showing that is not going to roll over in contrcat negotiation and the club is going to tell the players waht is happening instead of vice versa then it is getting my vote

...yeah this "hard nosed stance" is certainly working...6000-8000 crowds with a 9th place finish...Milne is winning...

[Bamber]

...yeah this "hard nosed stance" is certainly working...6000-8000 crowds with a 9th place finish...Milne is winning...

 

 

problem is as a business all of scottish football is basically a toxic business - all it can do is survive it doesnt have the resources to grow

 

the biggest overhead is players wages - tell the players what we can afford and let them choose stay or go

 

doesnt matter if we offer

[El Terrible]

Taking a gamble on a higher wage on a POTENTIAL return for a toxic business is a high risk strategy. He could make us a Million he could also cost us 1/2 a million for no return. We are in the position that a 1/2 million loss is the greater risk due to the toxicity of the business

 

So how the fuck are Aberdeen EVER going to make money?

If Fraser is on a longer term contract and avoids injury then we make money, end of.

[Redstar]

problem is as a business all of scottish football is basically a toxic business - all it can do is survive it doesnt have the resources to grow

 

the biggest overhead is players wages - tell the players what we can afford and let them choose stay or go

 

doesnt matter if we offer

[Bamber]

So how the fuck are Aberdeen EVER going to make money?

If Fraser is on a longer term contract and avoids injury then we make money, end of.

 

 

There is an "if" and an "avoid" in that statement - which makes it a gamble - if the decison is

[barassie_afc]

There is an "if" and an "avoid" in that statement - which makes it a gamble - if the decison is

[El Terrible]

There is an "if" and an "avoid" in that statement - which makes it a gamble - if the decison is

[fine-n-dandy]

There is an "if" and an "avoid" in that statement - which makes it a gamble - if the decison is

[Bamber]

Speculate to accumulate, you placing an evens money bet with a 48% chance of winning is not comparable with offering the clubs best young talent a decent deal,despite the possibility of injury.

 

Think of the clubs who've been scouting him....we could've made shitloads

 

 

We are a toxic business - we cannot afford to operate a speculate to accumulate policy

 

Could have should have might have doesnt pay the bills

[Redstar]

We are a toxic business - we cannot afford to operate a speculate to accumulate policy

 

Could have should have might have doesnt pay the bills

Must be your favourite phrase...you've used it on numerous posts...it's probably fair enough with a man like Milne at the helm...I can think of no other individual as toxic as that cu*t

[Bamber]

Yes but taking all that in mind, then think back to contracts offered to countless others recently. Foster, Clangers, Diamond, Clark etc. etc. & they were all way OTT & therefore HUGE gambles & none of which have paid off (basically cos they are all shite) so I think in some cases it IS ok to take a gamble & this is one such case. Actually I don't see paying Fraser an AVERAGE first team wage as a gamble in the slightest.

 

Contracts given to the likes of Foster, Clark etc. are STILL affecting the club cos they have ruined our chances of keeping hold of players now. This is down to bad management & although they now seem to be trying to turn this "bad management" around & no longer offer big wages, they have to be a little flexible when they do see a player they really would like to keep

 

I would expect & accept Fraser to justifiably earn & deserve an average first team wage. I don't know what the likes of Hayes is on but I'd guess it's above average for us the now & Fraser is like a mini Hayes (but not fully there yet obviously) but with arguably a bigger sell on potential & for this reason I'd say an average wage (& slightly below Hayes the now) is acceptable. They may have offered this (I don't know) & if they did then fair enough the lad is a mug for knocking it back but also they may not have offered as much & in which case I think the club is the mug then.

 

Whichever is the case, that is the level of wage I would find as fair from BOTH parties.

 

 

All of the cases you mention are "spent money" - the quickest way to lose more money is to base a decison on what you have spent not on what you can afford

 

A bit off track but look at the edinburgh trams - A fortune has been spent and the future decison is being based on what has been spent not on what it will cost to continue. If it was purely based on what the cost was now to produce a tram line to the original spec it would have been cancelled months ago

 

So just because in the past we have offered wages to any player (even those already here) that should not influence what we offer any other player. We look at the budget we have and the player on its own. we dont even look at the average - if we cant afford "the average" then there is no point in trying to pay it.

 

We look at what we have available and we make the best offer available - dont care what the average is or what we might earn or not - thats all hypothetical as a business we canty deal in hypothetical only in fact

 

If we had a couple of million in the bank instead of the debt we are carrying we could then afford to pay more as we could take the risk - we cant take the risk so we shouldnt

[Tord31]

milne on north tonight after the agm re ryan fraser

 

club made offer to ryan and asked him what his demands were

 

club then met these demands in full

 

fraser asked for more time

 

afc set deadline

 

deadline passed without a conclusion

 

afc have no idea what happened between fraser making his counter offer and the offer being put to him

[Redstar]

milne on north tonight after the agm re ryan fraser

 

club made offer to ryan and asked him what his demands were

 

club then met these demands in full

 

fraser asked for more time

 

afc set deadline

 

deadline passed without a conclusion

 

afc have no idea what happened between fraser making his counter offer and the offer being put to him

AFC and Milne are making themselves look absolute idiots over this...what a complete embarrassment Milne truly is

[Tord31]

no offer on table to ryan fraser but door always open if he wants to discuss

[fine-n-dandy]

All of the cases you mention are "spent money" - the quickest way to lose more money is to base a decison on what you have spent not on what you can afford

 

A bit off track but look at the edinburgh trams - A fortune has been spent and the future decison is being based on what has been spent not on what it will cost to continue. If it was purely based on what the cost was now to produce a tram line to the original spec it would have been cancelled months ago

 

So just because in the past we have offered wages to any player (even those already here) that should not influence what we offer any other player. We look at the budget we have and the player on its own. we dont even look at the average - if we cant afford "the average" then there is no point in trying to pay it.

 

We look at what we have available and we make the best offer available - dont care what the average is or what we might earn or not - thats all hypothetical as a business we canty deal in hypothetical only in fact

 

If we had a couple of million in the bank instead of the debt we are carrying we could then afford to pay more as we could take the risk - we cant take the risk so we shouldnt

 

 

Although you seem to think it. I am not simply saying that just because we have offered shite players more money in the past that we still should.

 

I am using them as an example of BAD management but not a reason for thinking that we can no longer offer a great young player an AVERAGE first team wage

 

I think Fraser (as I've already said) simply does deserve an average wage & if the club offered that then fair enough but if they didn't then I feel they didn't offer him what he would no doubt earn & potentially even repay massively.

If he refused as much as an average wage then he's the one in the wrong as far as being to big for his boots

[Redstar]

What could have been one of AFC's best bits of business has turned into its greatest embarrassment...Good God Milne what a fu*k up...trying to make a young laddie look like the villain in all this is low even for Milne...what a mess

[muttonhumper]

I still like the little fucker regardless so your fact is in fact not a fact.

Talking of facts.

Facts that underline Fraser and his agent are fucking tossers of the highest order.

And facts that put to bed this clearly agenda driven drivel that he was offered

[fine-n-dandy]

no offer on table to ryan fraser but door always open if he wants to discuss

 

 

Well that's just stupid when he will get countless offers (if not already) in just over a weeks time

 

We should approach him once more & ask him realistically what he'd like & see if it is reasonable to the club.

 

As has been suggested, it may even be as simple as a release fee in the contract, or percentage of a sell on fee etc.

 

Say for example we get 30% sell on clause when a team does eventually buy him (providing he signs a new deal with us first) we offer 10% to him also. It may mean we reduce what we could make in future but it's still better than shitty compo we will get in Summer

[Tord31]

its an amazing disappointment to scottish football if he never plays a top flight senior professional football match in any country again, very silly boy

[fine-n-dandy]

its an amazing disappointment to scottish football if he never plays a top flight senior professional football match in any country again, very silly boy

 

 

Barring an injury ridden career, I do not think this will be the case though

[Tord31]

Barring an injury ridden career, I do not think this will be the case though

 

well first off he needs to patch up differences with afc or get a new top flight club then he needs to get picked. fyvie and grimmer both on 0 mins of league football since they left

[Redstar]

Well that's just stupid when he will get countless offers (if not already) in just over a weeks time

 

We should approach him once more & ask him realistically what he'd like & see if it is reasonable to the club.

 

As has been suggested, it may even be as simple as a release fee in the contract, or percentage of a sell on fee etc.

 

Say for example we get 30% sell on clause when a team does eventually buy him (providing he signs a new deal with us first) we offer 10% to him also. It may mean we reduce what we could make in future but it's still better than shitty compo we will get in Summer

F&D I'd suggest the relationship has been so soured over the ridiculous opening offer that there will be no happy ending for this one...the fact that Fraser is so young will act in his favour...AFC will not come out of this well...there was talk previously of the agent wanting to sue AFC for liable when they posted on the AFC site that Fraser had said he didn't want to play for AFC again...which wasn't true allegedly...cluster fu*k supreme deluxe

[fine-n-dandy]

well first off he needs to patch up differences with afc or get a new top flight club then he needs to get picked. fyvie and grimmer both on 0 mins of league football since they left

 

 

& James McArthur is currently on 62 appearances (13 this season) & James McCarthy is on 94 (17 this season)

 

Main point being that Fraser is miles better than both Grimmer & Fyvie, so the players mentioned above are just as comparable to the two you mention

 

Robert Snodgrass is another good example

 

All irrelevant basically

[Tord31]

mccarthy has played 250 senior matches in his career certainly not comparable to any of the dons examples.

 

mcarthur is a full scottish international and was vice captain at hamilton

[Redstar]

mccarthy has played 250 senior matches in his career certainly not comparable to any of the dons examples.

 

mcarthur is a full scottish international and was vice captain at hamilton

Do you work for Milne tord?

[Bamber]

Although you seem to think it. I am not simply saying that just because we have offered shite players more money in the past that we still should.

 

I am using them as an example of BAD management but not a reason for thinking that we can no longer offer a great young player an AVERAGE first team wage

 

I think Fraser (as I've already said) simply does deserve an average wage & if the club offered that then fair enough but if they didn't then I feel they didn't offer him what he would no doubt earn & potentially even repay massively.

If he refused as much as an average wage then he's the one in the wrong as far as being to big for his boots

 

 

if we have over paid in the past and as such have too high an avergae wage and we cant afford to offer the average wage then we shouldnt

 

The only thing we should be offering Fraser is the best wage that we can within our budget. From the description above

 

 

We asked what he wanted,

he told us

it was within our limits

we offered it

he asked for time

We gave it

he didnt come back

 

Now i dont know about you but on Monday morning if my boss says "bamber we are giving you a rise, what do you want" and I say "

[fine-n-dandy]

mccarthy has played 250 senior matches in his career certainly not comparable to any of the dons examples.

 

mcarthur is a full scottish international and was vice captain at hamilton

 

 

Was vice captain, so as to keep him there & renew his contract & increase his sell on value

Both players were given good contracts to increase sell on value & in both cases the clubs gained HUGELY from doing so. (from the benefit of keeping them on & then selling them later)

 

Like I said your players & mine are basically irrelevant for varying reasons.

 

We don't know who'll sign him & therefore how much game time he'll get.

If it was a higer level Prem team then he'd likely get less (unless some meaningless appearances as sub) & a lower end Prem team would likely give him more game time once/if safe from relegation etc. point is WE won't know til/if it happens

 

But Fraser is certainly better than both Fyvie & Grimmer