Soldier Killed By Two Attackers In Woolwich

[granite sheep]

My thoughts on the two Islamic nutters that done this.

 

These people should be laughed at. They should be laughed at because they want to be taken seriously. They should be laughed at because they let some wanker convince them that a magic man in the sky was going to give them a bunch of virgins just as long as they did what the wanker says without question. They should be laughed at because they think acts like this can change British government policy. They should be laughed at because they think the British people can be manipulated by murder, but most of all they should be laughed at because that's what bullies fear more than anything else. So let's laugh at them.

[Sheep#1]

 

He's probably been here all his life. He's rebelling and sacrificing his own life because he's mad. Nothing more or less.

Yeah I know, that's why the 'send them back' mantra doesn't make much sense in these situations. My point is, these extremists claim to hate us and our way of life so much, why not go and live with their 'muslim brothers' in a Muslim country. Oh that's right, cos they won't get a house, benefits etc.

[Foster14]

Only seen the vid once, but looks like folk just calmly speak to the guy when he walks back over to the body. What the actual fuck?Absolutely unreal. All this achieves is further division in the country. If these fuckers hate our 'way of life' so much, why don't they fuck off and live in some Muslim ruled shithole.

Not to defend the two today, but maybe these people would go back to their country if Western forces weren't fucking it up?

 

It is fucked up, but then so is so much going on in this country. There are on average 750 murders a year in the UK but barely any will give the outrage this one has and will do, nae even the likes of Moat or Bird.

 

What is the difference here?

[Ke1t]

'pretty sociopathic state of mind.'

 

What do you mean by that??

 

I mean the notion that you execute people because "it's going to save money" would place you firmly in the Sociopath bracket.

 

6. LACK OF REMORSE OR GUILT -- a lack of feelings or concern for the losses, pain, and suffering of victims; a tendency to be unconcerned, dispassionate, coldhearted, and un empathic. This item is usually demonstrated by a disdain for one's victims.

7. SHALLOW AFFECT -- emotional poverty or a limited range or depth of feelings; interpersonal coldness in spite of signs of open gregariousness.

8. CALLOUSNESS and LACK OF EMPATHY -- a lack of feelings toward people in general; cold, contemptuous, inconsiderate, and tactless.

From what I can see, the idea that whether or not you kill someone is reduced to how much it's going to cost to NOT kill someone, speaks of a mental 'switching off' and reducing the worth of human life to pounds and pence.

 

 

 

 

 

I think it is human rights gone mad that we spend so much tax payers money keeping paedos, rapists and animals like those two in Woolwich today locked up and safe.

 

 

I know, you were saying. It costs money to keep people alive, so why not... you know... just kill them?

[daytripping]

Fucking cowardly senseless horrific killing, how is killing this soldier going to help any cause.

 

Also pretty sad indictment on our society that people stand about filming the attack, fucking throw your phone at the cunts, find a brick or road sign, don't just stand there thinking of you tube hits.

[Pudgie]

Should we GTFO of Afghan and Iraq?

[Sheep#1]

Not to defend the two today, but maybe these people would go back to their country if Western forces weren't fucking it up?

It is fucked up, but then so is so much going on in this country. There are on average 750 murders a year in the UK but barely any will give the outrage this one has and will do, nae even the likes of Moat or Bird.

What is the difference here?

But this is apparently 'their country'. I just said if they hate it so much, fuck off elsewhere. There are plenty Muslim countries we aren't 'fucking up' in which they could go and live.

 

They are all as bad, but a situation like this has a real shock factor to it, poor guy set upon in broad daylight like this, all in the name of 'Allah'.

[chaos_defrost]

In fact the figures refute your 'Let's kill them because it's cheaper' argument, I'm afraid.

 

What figures? You've not posted any figures to back up your claim that it's cheaper not having capital punishment, which you seem to be saying as fact.

 

As for appeals, can't people appeal against custodial sentences as it is??

[caledonia]

It would be refreshing if the public reaction, instead of being predictably like "send them all back" and "hang the bastards", was more along the lines of peaceful protests as the Norwegian people demonstrated following Anders Breivik's attack.

 

I fear the BNP will sook up the gravy in the aftermath of today.

 

bollocks hang the bastards just about fits the bill

or maybe you want to give them a nice cosy cell with a telly and someone to wipe their nose and look after their human rights.

[Ke1t]

Fucking cowardly senseless horrific killing, how is killing this soldier going to help any cause.

 

Well from a purely practical standpoint I guess it could be considered one less soldier to participate in illegal invasion and occupation at the behest of successive militaristic British governments.

 

Also pretty sad indictment on our society that people stand about filming the attack, fucking throw your phone at the cunts, find a brick or road sign, don't just stand there thinking of you tube hits.

 

While I'm against killing, I think it would be justifiable to drive your car over the top of someone who's on a hatchet-wielding killing spree.

 

Bizarre that people can stand by and watch another person murder, or be murdered, without intervening.

[chaos_defrost]

I mean the notion that you execute people because "it's going to save money" would place you firmly in the Sociopath bracket.

 

6. LACK OF REMORSE OR GUILT -- a lack of feelings or concern for the losses, pain, and suffering of victims; a tendency to be unconcerned, dispassionate, coldhearted, and un empathic. This item is usually demonstrated by a disdain for one's victims.

7. SHALLOW AFFECT -- emotional poverty or a limited range or depth of feelings; interpersonal coldness in spite of signs of open gregariousness.

8. CALLOUSNESS and LACK OF EMPATHY -- a lack of feelings toward people in general; cold, contemptuous, inconsiderate, and tactless.

From what I can see, the idea that whether or not you kill someone is reduced to how much it's going to cost to NOT kill someone, speaks of a mental 'switching off' and reducing the worth of human life to pounds and pence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know, you were saying. It costs money to keep people alive, so why not... you know... just kill them?

 

What a heap of shite. Are we supposed to take into consideration the feelings of those two that carried out that attack today?? I'd like to think that I do take people's feelings into consideration but they can get to fuck as far as I'm concerned.

[granite sheep]

 

The difference is that this is a great opportunity to spin fear and loathing in the Yoonited Kingdom.

 

The government have been dealt a great card to continue their sick agenda.

 

It was also a pretty dramatic and unusual modus operandi.

 

The madman's act was provoked by his perception of the world and the UK's government's role within it.

 

There is one question that will be ignored and that is why the madman did it.

 

Harman has just said terrorist act. That's three different senior influential people so far.

 

Just because the madman's mad view of the world thinks he is acting on behalf of allah/jihad whatever, doesn't make this a terrorist act. It's the act of a madman.

 

The US government are insane. We were weak and mad to join them. No, we were corrupt to join them.

Cracking post RS. If Tony Bliar had refrained from tonging Bush's ringpiece (look at Cameron, he's even worse with Obama, so far up the President's hoop you can just see his feet sticking out); we'd not be in as bad a state as we are now. However- the NATO pact does say that if one country is attacked- all countries in the alliance must respond. The problem is- who were we supposed to fight? Sure enough- Afghanistan was invaded: that was where the Taliban were sheltering many of Al-Queda's main men, and where the training camps were. That I get. Why in the name of fuck, apart from Saddam Hussein being a very very naughty dictator was Iraq invaded? Can't have been cos of the oil. Course not. We were getting our RIGHTEOUS VENGEANCE upon those Muslamic terrorist people.

[Ke1t]

What figures? You've not posted any figures to back up your claim that it's cheaper not having capital punishment, which you seem to be saying as fact.

 

As for appeals, can't people appeal against custodial sentences as it is??

 

Studies on the cost of the Death Penalty routinely report that simply jailing people till they die would be cheaper than executing them. Let's take California as an example;

 

Financial Facts About the Death Penalty

California

Assessment of Costs by Judge Arthur Alarcon and Prof. Paula Mitchell (2011, updated 2012)

The authors concluded that the cost of the death penalty in California has totaled over $4 billion since 1978:

• $1.94 billion--Pre-Trial and Trial Costs
• $925 million--Automatic Appeals and State Habeas Corpus Petitions
• $775 million--Federal Habeas Corpus Appeals
• $1 billion--Costs of Incarceration

The authors calculated that, if the Governor commuted the sentences of those remaining on death row to life without parole, it would result in an immediate savings of $170 million per year, with a savings of $5 billion over the next 20 years.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/LoyolaCalifCosts.pdf

According to California's .gov website, it costs 47k per year to incarcerate one inmate. For a Death Row inmate, on average, 175k per year.

According to an ACLU study...

http://www.deathpenalty.org/downloads/The_Hidden_Death_Tax.pdf

[Ke1t]

What a heap of shite. Are we supposed to take into consideration the feelings of those two that carried out that attack today?? I'd like to think that I do take people's feelings into consideration but they can get to fuck as far as I'm concerned.

 

It's not about taking anyone's feelings into consideration. It's about basing your system of law on logic and rational thought rather than emotion or what satisfies blood lust.

 

I personally don't particularly care if the killer is an ignorant pretendy Muslim who doesn't even know which religion's will he's carrying out, or if he's had a tough life, or if he was drunk. Try him based upon the evidence, and punish him based upon the law.

 

There's no need for government to be killing people.

[jassb]

 

Attack an intruder in your own home and you get the jail. We are told that we are not allowed to intervene. That's just antisocial behaviour and burglary. I'm not sure many are going to confront a guy with serious weaponry bare-handed. If the victim has been hatcheted already, what intervention will make any difference and who is mad enough to wade in and inevitable get killed themselves? One dead squaddie and two should-be-dead madmen is better than a fourth, a bravado idiot citizen with no sense of perspective. An opportunity to intervene needs to be present. It was way too late to get involved.

That's probably why they did it in London and not Glasgow. Remember John Smeaton.........

 

Smeaton, a baggage handler, was off duty when he saw the incident start to develop on 30 June 2007. He later recalled his first thoughts on being confronted by the two desperate suspects who drove a burning jeep filled with explosives into the airport entrance. He heard three explosions during his break: "What's the score? I've got to get this sorted."

He added "I thought, 'That's not right,' and ran over to assist. All that was going through my mind was I've got to help the policeman, I'm not letting these guys get away with this."[5]

It was reported that Smeaton shouted "fuckin' mon, then" and aimed a kick in the testicles at Kafeel Ahmed, who later died from his 90% burns following the attack.[2][6]

During the incident Smeaton also helped drag Michael Kerr to safety after Kerr, another person to intervene in the event, had been left lying with a broken leg beside the burning jeep after kicking Mr Ahmed himself.[4]

The incident has been described as inspiring others to take personal initiative and act decisively in a crisis. Newsagent and former policeman Mohammed Afzah cited Smeaton as inspiration for his facing down and repelling a would-be armed robber.[7]

In late July, Smeaton returned to his old job as a baggage handler at the airport.[8] Later in the year he accepted a job as head of security at a nearby company.[9]

On 18 December 2007, it was announced that Smeaton was to be awarded the Queen's Gallantry Medal for his actions;[10][11] this was presented by the Queen at a ceremony at Buckingham Palace on 4 March 2008.

[Foster14]

But this is apparently 'their country'. I just said if they hate it so much, fuck off elsewhere. There are plenty Muslim countries we aren't 'fucking up' in which they could go and live.They are all as bad, but a situation like this has a real shock factor to it, poor guy set upon in broad daylight like this, all in the name of 'Allah'.

I don't find this any more shocking than any other murder on an unknown assailant not expecting it. Doesn't change my opinion on absolutely anything. A momentary sadness for the act that occurred then get on with it.

 

COBRA meetings and hysteria?! What the actual fuck are they going to do?! Ban Muslims from having axes etc. Inform people to be more vigilante for weapons bearing madmen?

[jassb]

English Defence League and riot police there now. Could it get ugly?

[Ke1t]

Two equally ignorant groups of individuals squaring off at the scene of a (not really) religiously motivated murder?

 

What could possibly go wrong?

[granite sheep]

 

We agree on something, obviously. You said so. But tell me this is in jest. You don't believe that about the Taliban and Al Q and training camps do you? Did you think 9/11 was just the start and that this army of arabs and muslims was going to attack the west?

I do admit, for a couple of days after, I was shitting myself, utterly convinced the balloon was goin up. However, I did know that the Islamic world, especially the Middle East are nae mair united than flee in the air; hell, many of their military forces are set up for suppression of their populace and/or domestic threats (with the exception of Iran- that'd be an enormous meatgrinder of a conflict, they have a pretty decent army even with their president's insane boasts); rather than proper warfighting capabilities.

[zander]

The thicko breed out in force on Facebook etc tonight.

[daytripping]

Attack an intruder in your own home and you get the jail. We are told that we are not allowed to intervene. That's just antisocial behaviour and burglary. I'm not sure many are going to confront a guy with serious weaponry bare-handed. If the victim has been hatcheted already, what intervention will make any difference and who is mad enough to wade in and inevitable get killed themselves? One dead squaddie and two should-be-dead madmen is better than a fourth, a bravado idiot citizen with no sense of perspective. An opportunity to intervene needs to be present. It was way too late to get involved.

 

I would.

[chaos_defrost]

Studies on the cost of the Death Penalty routinely report that simply jailing people till they die would be cheaper than executing them. Let's take California as an example;

 

Financial Facts About the Death Penalty

California

Assessment of Costs by Judge Arthur Alarcon and Prof. Paula Mitchell (2011, updated 2012)

The authors concluded that the cost of the death penalty in California has totaled over $4 billion since 1978:

• $1.94 billion--Pre-Trial and Trial Costs
• $925 million--Automatic Appeals and State Habeas Corpus Petitions
• $775 million--Federal Habeas Corpus Appeals
• $1 billion--Costs of Incarceration

The authors calculated that, if the Governor commuted the sentences of those remaining on death row to life without parole, it would result in an immediate savings of $170 million per year, with a savings of $5 billion over the next 20 years.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/LoyolaCalifCosts.pdf

According to California's .gov website, it costs 47k per year to incarcerate one inmate. For a Death Row inmate, on average, 175k per year.

According to an ACLU study...

http://www.deathpenalty.org/downloads/The_Hidden_Death_Tax.pdf

 

That's based on the legal system in California and we don't have an identical legal system to California so those figures mean absolutely fuck all to anyone.

 

It's not about taking anyone's feelings into consideration. It's about basing your system of law on logic and rational thought rather than emotion or what satisfies blood lust.

 

I personally don't particularly care if the killer is an ignorant pretendy Muslim who doesn't even know which religion's will he's carrying out, or if he's had a tough life, or if he was drunk. Try him based upon the evidence, and punish him based upon the law.

 

There's no need for government to be killing people.

 

You've been going on and on about how my argument is about saving money, now you're saying it's about basing a system on 'emotion or what satisfies blood lust'. So which is it?

 

I'm talking about a system whereby we could execute criminals, deemed worthy of execution, at a lower cost than locking them away until they die. If a system like that could be implemented, I'm all for it.

[Ke1t]

I would.

 

Personal responsibility in action.

 

If you're willing to put yourself in harms way in an attempt to prevent others from falling victim then that should be absolutely your right.

 

Standing, shrugging, and saying, "Ach weel." while a lunatic wanders around with a machette is also an option and also a case of personal responsibility.

[daytripping]

I'm with the EDL on this one, having lived in Leicester and seen areas become no go areas for the indigenous people I think it needs someone to make a stance, these areas are becoming breeding grounds for radicals.

 

the edl are highlighting the issue that no political party will touch, 20 asian men were jailed last week for a huge underage sex trafficking ring, all the girls were groomed from a young age and white, imagine the outcry if that had happened in the reverse, it hardly made the news.

 

I'm as far removed from being a racist as you'll get but radical islam needs confronted not swept under the carpet, the problem isn't going to go away.

 

the bleeding heart lefties have blood on their hands tonight.

[Foster14]

As recently as 2009, soldiers were killed by the Real IRA, with others injured in the attack. No mention of terror attack there, only murder.

 

Why?

 

Already 750k followers to RIP Woolwich Soldier with big UK flag as profile picture. Fucks sake...

[ebbe]

I'm with the EDL on this one, having lived in Leicester and seen areas become no go areas for the indigenous people I think it needs someone to make a stance, these areas are becoming breeding grounds for radicals.

 

the edl are highlighting the issue that no political party will touch, 20 asian men were jailed last week for a huge underage sex trafficking ring, all the girls were groomed from a young age and white, imagine the outcry if that had happened in the reverse, it hardly made the news.

 

I'm as far removed from being a racist as you'll get but radical islam needs confronted not swept under the carpet, the problem isn't going to go away.

 

the bleeding heart lefties have blood on their hands tonight.

 

absolutely spot on.

[daytripping]

Personal responsibility in action.

 

If you're willing to put yourself in harms way in an attempt to prevent others from falling victim then that should be absolutely your right.

 

Standing, shrugging, and saying, "Ach weel." while a lunatic wanders around with a machette is also an option and also a case of personal responsibility.

 

I'd be finding a fucking brick, a road sign, anything, even the shopping trolley of the old dear walking by, I swear on my life I would have done something, no matter how futile. There were at least 20 blokes there, get fucking stuck in!

[Foster14]

I'm with the EDL on this one, having lived in Leicester and seen areas become no go areas for the indigenous people I think it needs someone to make a stance, these areas are becoming breeding grounds for radicals. the edl are highlighting the issue that no political party will touch, 20 asian men were jailed last week for a huge underage sex trafficking ring, all the girls were groomed from a young age and white, imagine the outcry if that had happened in the reverse, it hardly made the news. I'm as far removed from being a racist as you'll get but radical islam needs confronted not swept under the carpet, the problem isn't going to go away. the bleeding heart lefties have blood on their hands tonight.

Heard plenty about that since the trial started a while back. Lots of reporting on it.

[Ke1t]

That's based on the legal system in California and we don't have an identical legal system to California so those figures mean absolutely fuck all to anyone.

 

It's based on a system of appeals. Where the convicted has a right to fight his conviction. Those figures are real world figures and are an indicator of how an appeals system works and how costly they can be. It's fine if you want to start killing convicts (not from a personal point of view, of course). Far from "meaning absolutely fuck all" this is a solid, factual real life example.

 

Unless, as I say, you plan to just say "Guilty" and ten minutes later have a corpse to dispose of, with no means by which the convicted can appeal.

 

And that's pretty fucked up too.

 

 

You've been going on and on about how my argument is about saving money, now you're saying it's about basing a system on 'emotion or what satisfies blood lust'. So which is it?

 

Neither is mutually exclusive. In your case you want to execute people because you (wrongly) think it might save you some cash. For other people it's about emotion. For some people it's about blood lust. For others, well, they just might not like niggers. All are potential , and to my mind, equally unsuitable bases for a system of law.

 

So which is it?

 

It's all of them.

 

 

I'm talking about a system whereby we could execute criminals, deemed worthy of execution, at a lower cost than locking them away until they die. If a system like that could be implemented, I'm all for it.

 

I'm pretty sure the Chinese have a 'better' (read Cheaper) means of killing their convicts, and that's more in line with your idea of just whisking the convicted off to be killed.

 

So, yeah, you absolutely could kill the freshly convicted people cheaply, but you would have to dispense with any sort of Human Rights on their part, though I get the impression that's not really an issue as far as you're concerned.

[Dynamo]

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