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Scottish Independence Referendum 2


Henry

Should Scotland be an independent country?  

273 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Scotland be an independent country?

    • Yes
      197
    • No
      76


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Free prescriptions are not an argument for how well the NHS has been run you simpleton, it is a benefit of being in the UK currently, if independence happened lets see if they stay.

 

New Hospital ? A new hospital anywhere in Scotland means the NHS is being run well?  :hysterical:  What a fucking retarded argument that is. New hospitals can be built anywhere. Also I take it you mean new hospitals like the new Sick Kids hospital in Edinburgh, built on the cheap intitially and therefore will now cost a further £90 million to sort the mess out? Good SNP planning in action!

 

NHS Lothian itself faces a shortfall of £25.9 million this year alone, with a gap of 80 million projected by 2021. You mean that sort of good planning? 

 

They have fucked the NHS in many other ways too in addition to the above , a few examples :..

 

. The gaps in the service have got worse and worse on the SNP's watch, largely due to poor planning.  Over 2400 posts outstanding at the end of 2018 which was up from the previous year.

. The constant cutting of budgets which ultimately leads to having to throw for example 12 million quid at NHS Tayside in March 2018 just to balance the books. The tories have put in more cash each year as a percentage to the NHS in England and Wales than the SNP have in Scotland.

 

Your own glorious leader toilet brush hair Sturgeon fucked most of this a health minister. She herself said that the NHS "will always be in crisis until fundamental changes are approved cross party". Nice and vague and a statement that suggests the SNP aren't capable of sorting it out?

 

When the SNP got in to power in 2007 they promised to reverse proposed NHS reforms, they went against the health minister in the Labour/Liberal government of 2003-2007 and kept community health units that were meant to be closed open. Hindsight has proved the original idea was correct.

 

The most conservative force NHS wise in Scotland has been the SNP. It's held back by not wanting to scare away idiots who support independence and also if they use devolved powers to their maximum (which they haven't and won't) people will see independence as unnecessary.

 

Enough fact above? But no.. they built a new hospital or 2 and they give free prescriptions , what a clueless cunt  :whistling: 

 

. The gaps in the service have got worse and worse on the SNP's watch, largely due to poor planning.  Over 2400 posts outstanding at the end of 2018 which was up from the previous year.

 

What is the equivalent figure in England? 100k?

 

. The constant cutting of budgets which ultimately leads to having to throw for example 12 million quid at NHS Tayside in March 2018 just to balance the books. The tories have put in more cash each year as a percentage to the NHS in England and Wales than the SNP have in Scotland.

 

More cash as a percentage of what?  Their total budget?  What about spending per person?  Clue: Scotland spends more per person on the NHS than England.

 

What about waiting lists, number of beds, number of doctors and nurses per population.

 

 

 

Once again, NHS Scotland may not be that great, but it's better than England's.  The statistics bear this out.

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The tories have put in more cash each year as a percentage to the NHS in England and Wales than the SNP have in Scotland.

 

I've already called you out for telling lies and half-truths. Why do you keep returning the exact same one?

 

A very silly, blinkered man.

 

Blockhead by name and, it seems, blockhead by nature.

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More cash as a percentage of what? Their total budget? What about spending per person? Clue: Scotland spends more per person on the NHS than England.

 

 

Yeah. He knows this. He's making a weird claim that the NHS in England is better because they are increasing spending (from a lower level) at a faster rate (as a percentage of their previous spend) year on year.

 

So essentially, the Tories used to spend £50 on the NHS and have increased spending by 100% to £100. Therefore are brilliant.

While the SNP used to spend £150 on the NHS and have only increased it by 3.3% to £155 so are shite.

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I see Kim Jong Butch is set to resign as the Dear Leader of the North British Branch of the Glorious Party of Bigots and Orangemen.

 

I said from the start that she was a media construct, devoid of any meaningful policies (with the exception of "No Surrender to Independence") and that she would be found out in time for the charlatan she is.

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Also I take it you mean new hospitals like the new Sick Kids hospital in Edinburgh, built on the cheap intitially and therefore will now cost a further £90 million to sort the mess out? Good SNP planning in action!

 

 

I raise that and bring you the Tories in England and the Royal Liverpool Hospital which should have opened in 2017 and is over miles over budget and now looks like many floors will have to be rebuilt

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-48554318

 

AEAD03-F5-A923-43-F9-9-FD0-B029-A0-E0-CF

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I don't understand why folk bang on about the SNP, in terms of the independence debate.

 

They are surely irrelevant once Scotland achieves independence?   They'd be pointless post-independence - when Scotland begins the process of forming a new government there would be no SNP.  They'd fracture and dissipate.  I've no doubt Sturgeon and Co would attempt to form some sort of party, or political vehicle, but there's not a cat in hells chance that they'd get close to any power.  The vast majority of SNP voters that I know, just vote for them as a means to an end.

 

The only way we'll get rid of the SNP is by actually achieving independence!  Otherwise they're always going to persist in some shape or form, like an unflushable turd.

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I don't understand why folk bang on about the SNP, in terms of the independence debate.

 

They are surely irrelevant once Scotland achieves independence? They'd be pointless post-independence - when Scotland begins the process of forming a new government there would be no SNP. They'd fracture and dissipate. I've no doubt Sturgeon and Co would attempt to form some sort of party, or political vehicle, but there's not a cat in hells chance that they'd get close to any power. The vast majority of SNP voters that I know, just vote for them as a means to an end.

 

The only way we'll get rid of the SNP is by actually achieving independence! Otherwise they're always going to persist in some shape or form, like an unflushable turd.

Disagree. Lots of people might still prefer them to Labour or Conservative. Depends what their policies were, can't see how they'd just disappear.

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Disagree. Lots of people might still prefer them to Labour or Conservative. Depends what their policies were, can't see how they'd just disappear.

 

Would labour and conservative be the only options?  I doubt that.  It'd be interesting to see who, or what, rises to prominence.  I'm just basing the SNP thing on my experience.  As mentioned, nearly everyone I know just votes for them as a means to an end.  I don't know anyone who takes Sturgeon seriously.  How could you have a Scottish Nationalist Party in an independent Scotland?  It would be pointless. Their primary policy and aim would be obsolete.  As I said, I'm sure Sturgeon and Co would attempt to form some sort of newly branded political party - I absolutely certain they wouldn't amount to much though! 

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Would labour and conservative be the only options? I doubt that. It'd be interesting to see who, or what, rises to prominence. I'm just basing the SNP thing on my experience. As mentioned, nearly everyone I know just votes for them as a means to an end. I don't know anyone who takes Sturgeon seriously. How could you have a Scottish Nationalist Party in an independent Scotland? It would be pointless. Their primary policy and aim would be obsolete. As I said, I'm sure Sturgeon and Co would attempt to form some sort of newly branded political party - I absolutely certain they wouldn't amount to much though!

I think what will shock people will be the resurgence of the centre-right. Anything right of centre is tainted by association with a deeply unpopular Conservative Party at present, but in a new state, a new party unencumbered by historical baggage, with a Scottish-centric and small 'c' conservative outlook, would do very well... maybe even vie for coalition by the third parliamentary term.

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Would labour and conservative be the only options? I doubt that. It'd be interesting to see who, or what, rises to prominence. I'm just basing the SNP thing on my experience. As mentioned, nearly everyone I know just votes for them as a means to an end. I don't know anyone who takes Sturgeon seriously. How could you have a Scottish Nationalist Party in an independent Scotland? It would be pointless. Their primary policy and aim would be obsolete. As I said, I'm sure Sturgeon and Co would attempt to form some sort of newly branded political party - I absolutely certain they wouldn't amount to much though!

A few things... my apologies in advance if this post comes across poorly.

 

1. A great many people take the SNP and Sturgeon seriously. They've proven themselves a competent party in government and have a progressive outlook on most issues. I'd suggest you thinking otherwise may be down to living away from Scotland and the amount of discussions you have on politics being either small in number, or with the same people continuously.

 

2. There's no such party as the "Scottish Nationalist Party". A pretty significant difference between "National" and "Nationalist".

 

3. You being "absolutely certain" doesn't amount to anything though. They've been elected through their manifesto, only one strand of which is Independence. If you think the people of Scotland will elect a party to run the country for over a decade based solely on them believing in Independence, then you don't have much respect for the Scottish electorate.

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I think what will shock people will be the resurgence of the centre-right. Anything right of centre is tainted by association with a deeply unpopular Conservative Party at present, but in a new state, a new party unencumbered by historical baggage, with a Scottish-centric and small 'c' conservative outlook, would do very well... maybe even vie for coalition by the third parliamentary term.

What, you mean like New Labour?

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Would labour and conservative be the only options? I doubt that. It'd be interesting to see who, or what, rises to prominence. I'm just basing the SNP thing on my experience. As mentioned, nearly everyone I know just votes for them as a means to an end. I don't know anyone who takes Sturgeon seriously. How could you have a Scottish Nationalist Party in an independent Scotland? It would be pointless. Their primary policy and aim would be obsolete. As I said, I'm sure Sturgeon and Co would attempt to form some sort of newly branded political party - I absolutely certain they wouldn't amount to much though!

SNP have 431 councillors which has nothing to do with Independence

And they have other policy's as well (some i am dead against) but they are the only party that puts Scotlands interest first.

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Sturgeon's response to the Shetland result was interesting; she cites it as "a winnable seat for 2021". Yet another indicator that she and her cronies have given more thought to retaining their seats in 2021 than they have to holding, far less winning, an independence vote. It's looking more and more like she's a consummate career politician, seduced by power.

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A few things... my apologies in advance if this post comes across poorly.

 

1. A great many people take the SNP and Sturgeon seriously. They've proven themselves a competent party in government and have a progressive outlook on most issues. I'd suggest you thinking otherwise may be down to living away from Scotland and the amount of discussions you have on politics being either small in number, or with the same people continuously.

 

2. There's no such party as the "Scottish Nationalist Party". A pretty significant difference between "National" and "Nationalist".

 

3. You being "absolutely certain" doesn't amount to anything though. They've been elected through their manifesto, only one strand of which is Independence. If you think the people of Scotland will elect a party to run the country for over a decade based solely on them believing in Independence, then you don't have much respect for the Scottish electorate.

The above does carry a highly patronising tone and makes you sound like a pompous oik.  However, being familiar with your contributions over the years, I'd come to this conclusion a long time ago anyway... so it's neither here nor there really!  Nevertheless, thanks for the apology in advance, which I will graciously accept and we'll move on...

 

I think you massively underestimate the power and draw of that 'Independence strand'. Without this strand and with another credible option for the electorate in the Scotland, the SNP would be reduced to also rans.

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