Scottish Independence Referendum 2

[Redforever86]

Working great for China

A) Is it?

 

B) Is that real communism?

 

C) Does it require other countries to be capitalist?

[Jocky Balboa]

Why so much hate for communism?

How about tens of millions of deaths, failed economic system, totalitarian government, contempt for private property, suppression of individualism... I could go on, but ultimately it's a wicked ideology that may look good on paper, but has caused abject misery everywhere it's been tried.

[Parklife]

How about tens of millions of deaths, failed economic system, totalitarian government, contempt for private property, suppression of individualism... I could go on, but ultimately it's a wicked ideology that may look good on paper, but has caused abject misery everywhere it's been tried.

"Wicked ideology". Care to add some weight to how, on an ideological level, it can be described as "wicked".

[NEM]

"Wicked ideology". Care to add some weight to how, on an ideological level, it can be described as "wicked".

Can fascism, on an ideological level, be described as “wicked”?

[S2RDS]

How about tens of millions of deaths, failed economic system, totalitarian government, contempt for private property, suppression of individualism... I could go on, but ultimately it's a wicked ideology that may look good on paper, but has caused abject misery everywhere it's been tried.

 

Wealth inequality, consumerism, monopoly power, profiteering, opportunity inequality, impacts the environment etc. There a bad sides to capitalism as well. All types of political systems have pros and cons. 

[alscotoz]

The only things wrong with political systems are the cunts who bend them out of shape to further their own power and wealth.

[fatjim]

How about tens of millions of deaths, failed economic system, totalitarian government, contempt for private property, suppression of individualism... I could go on, but ultimately it's a wicked ideology that may look good on paper, but has caused abject misery everywhere it's been tried.

 

Doesn't sound like proper communism to me.

 

Most left wingers would say they were either a Marxist/Leninist, Stalinist, Trotsky etc. Real communism has never been implemented and with capitalist greed existing it's not likely to ever be implemented.  

[SheepieBaaBaa]

How about tens of millions of deaths, failed economic system, totalitarian government, contempt for private property, suppression of individualism... I could go on, but ultimately it's a wicked ideology that may look good on paper, but has caused abject misery everywhere it's been tried.

 

It's not the communism bit of the equation that caused that though, it's the totalitarian bit.

 

Uganda was pretty "free market" but Idi Amin still managed to do all of those things.

 

On a basic level, Communism just says, lets all do the jobs we are able to do, put all the money in a big pot and share it out and we'll all be rich.

 

Not a terrible idea surely, just requires people to be a bit less self interested and preferable to having 90% of the wealth controlled by 5% of the people (or whatever the statistic is).

 

Communism has generally been implemented on the weak foundation of revolutions led by borderline psychopaths (or indeed not even borderline).  If reasonable people got together and just said, you know what...rather than the ultra rich buying a third Yacht this year, why don' t we commit resources to feeding some starving babies.

 

Human nature gets in the way though.  Robot overlords could make it work.

[fatjim]

And Cuba

 

Cuba is the closest you'd get to proper socialism but when you have one of the biggest capitalist super powers nearby deliberately fucking you over with blockades and 24 hour radio stations telling Cubans that if they defect to America the streets are paved with gold (a blatant lie) it's difficult to make it work.

 

Cuba has one of the best health services in the world and send more Doctors around the world to poor countries to help than any other country in the world. They are definitely doing something right.

 

Cuba's problems mainly stem from US intervention rather than socialist theology.

[BWG]

I'm moving to Cuba.

[S2RDS]

Can fascism, on an ideological level, be described as “wicked”?

 

Agreed. Facism is often linked to Nazism, Hitler and the Holocaust, but even Mussloini didn't agree with the Nazi views on master races and didnt align with a lot of Hitlers ideas. In principle Fascism is an extreme level of nationalism, strength in unity etc. Today, its a term people band about to describe people who they dont agree with politically i.e. Trump... and he is no more fascist than Corbyn is communist. He is just an absolute cock. 

[Parklife]

Can fascism, on an ideological level, be described as “wicked”?

I never described anything as "wicked", bro. Let's stick to the accusation that's been made, rather than introduce strawmen in an attempt to obfuscate the issue.

[fatjim]

Same for other central/South American countries

 

Absolutely.

[Poodler]

Ayrshire?

[fatjim]

It’s a fucking dump full of crime

 

So are large parts of the US. Is that because of Capitalism? Well you could argue that it is because of Capitalism.

[fatjim]

You can’t say that communism doesn’t work because of capitalism .

 

Well you can but whether or not you agree with it is another matter.

[manboobs109]

We've never had true capitalism.

[Redforever86]

We've never had true capitalism.

 

Yes we have. A long time ago albeit.

[Jocky Balboa]

It's come to something when Cuba is seen as a beacon of light... Yes, their healthcare system is absolutely world-class, but what price civil liberties? It may have great doctors, but it also heavily censors libraries (anything deemed "counter-revolutionary" like George Orwell has been banned) and limits access to content the government decides is not suitable for consumption by responsible adults, whether it be rock music, films or such like.

 

To answer the resident Corbynista, yes I think fascism (the "collective" merger of corporatism and the state) is equally wicked. Both Communism and fascism are totalitarian systems, which put statism above basic rights of the individual. The badges are different, but the same false doctrines apply.

[Parklife]

Can you tell me what, on a ideological level, is "wicked" about communism?

[fatjim]

Capitalism works for a very small amount of people. Fucks over the majority.

[Redforever86]

NI hardly a beacon of civil liberties Jocky. Bunch of bigoted bitter cunts it seems

And we know they are bigoted bitter cunts because they have the civil liberties to display it through playing flutes and the wearing of very unfashionable hats etc.

 

I’d stick up for capitalism (uk centrist) if I could be arsed. But I actually think a mix of governmental styles does the world some good.

[Jocky Balboa]

NI hardly a beacon of civil liberties Jocky. Bunch of bigoted bitter cunts it seems

Agreed, which is why I'll be heading home ASAP.

[Parklife]

I wonder why you keep ignoring my question, Jocky boy? Was it because you were talking shite, perchance?

[Jocky Balboa]

I wonder why you keep ignoring my question, Jocky boy? Was it because you were talking shite, perchance?

I answered it. I believe Communism and Fascism are false doctrines, with sinister overtones, most notably the surrendering of individualism and civil liberties, to the all-encompassing power of the state. The badges may be different, but it's the same mind control and promises of false utopia.

[Poodler]

Where do you even start with that tripe

[fatjim]

I answered it. I believe Communism and Fascism are false doctrines, with sinister overtones, most notably the surrendering of individualism and civil liberties, to the all-encompassing power of the state. The badges may be different, but it's the same mind control and promises of false utopia.

 

What exactly is that fascist utopia they espouse?

[Wester Hailes Skins]

[Jocky Balboa]

How far can Sturgeon go to try and overturn the 2016 result in the name of "doing all she can to prevent Brexit" before people see it as (a) disregarding the democratic wishes of England and Wales and (b) destroying her own mandate for a second referendum?

 

She's certainly playing a very strange game and I don't think it would be conducive to good future cross-border relations if she continually interferes in their affairs, for which she has no mandate.

 

I still think she's full of shite personally and has no intention of holding another vote next Autumn (do we really believe Westminster will permit a Section 30 order? What is her Plan B when it's refused and why has there been no overt legal challenge to the permissions required, despite her having well over three years to do so?)

[BWG]

We had a Referendum. On the EU. And Scottish independence.

The noises now on both are simply the wailings of losers, liars, cheats and the undemocratic.

We are the UK. Soak it up.

Hope a solider dies today