Welcome back Stephen Glass

[WesthillWanderersFC]

27 minutes ago, Dundeedon said:

Cormack and co aren't short of a few bob. If they wanted to take a punt on someone why not go for the likes of John Terry? Make an offer to Lampard etc. Get someone like Scott Booth in as assistant. Show a bit of ambition. Would have lifted the whole profile of the club. Glass was an underwhelming appointment from the very start. Unfortunately instead of progressing as a club we're in dander of regressing. The support in Paisley was the smallest i've seen in years, on TV or not. Missed opportunity 

1) Glass absolutely is not the right man & out his depth. He needs to go and asap.

2) Talk of Lampard/Terry is fanciful. They’d want a chunky 7 figure salary & wouldn’t come anywhere near us. That’s not lack of ambition, it’s just reality. There’s only two clubs here can attract managers of that “profile”. 

[strachanmcgheegoal]

I agree.  The only chance you might get remotely lucky would be in a young manager from that pedigree trying to emulate or compete, even ride on the back of what Gerrard has done.    

[Ten Caat]

49 minutes ago, Dundeedon said:

Cormack and co aren't short of a few bob. If they wanted to take a punt on someone why not go for the likes of John Terry? Make an offer to Lampard etc. Get someone like Scott Booth in as assistant. Show a bit of ambition. Would have lifted the whole profile of the club. Glass was an underwhelming appointment from the very start. Unfortunately instead of progressing as a club we're in dander of regressing. The support in Paisley was the smallest i've seen in years, on TV or not. Missed opportunity 

Not a cat's chance in hell Lampard or Terry would consider relocating 500 miles north, even if we gave them a salary equivalent to that  McInnes was earning. That kind of cash is pocket-money to them.

But not only that....they'd demand a playing budget at least equivalent to that of the arse cheeks in order to give them a proper chance of competing. Anything other than them being seen to win the league would be regarded down south as failure and would harm their chances of ever managing in the EPL, where their true managerial ambitions lie.

 

[sooth_stander]

11 minutes ago, strachanmcgheegoal said:

I agree.  The only chance you might get remotely lucky would be in a young manager from that pedigree trying to emulate or compete, even ride on the back of what Gerrard has done.    

Not 100% sure what you are getting at here but the likes of Gerrard, Dalglish and Souness, for example, succeeded at big clubs, as young coaches and zero previous management experience, because they surrounded themselves with coaches with a wealth of experience. They were purely figurehead appointments 

Glass, on the other hand………

[aberdeen1970]

Fuck having that prick John Terry in charge anyway. 

If Cormack wanted to bring Glass in he should have done it as an assistant under an experienced manager. 

Or insisted that he brought in an experienced assistant himself rather than Russell and Henry who have less coaching experience than Glass. 

I'm all for people getting an opportunity but just about every important job at this club is being filled by rookies now. 

[shooftahmooftah]

If by end of October glass fails to get any points on board will Cormack have the guts to sack him. ??????   

[strachanmcgheegoal]

3 minutes ago, sooth_stander said:

Not 100% sure what you are getting at here but the likes of Gerrard, Dalglish and Souness, for example, succeeded at big clubs, as young coaches and zero previous management experience, because they surrounded themselves with coaches with a wealth of experience. They were purely figurehead appointments 

Glass, on the other hand………

Everyone accepts young managers of the calibre mentioned wouldn't come here as they've no need to - they neither need the money nor will they be short of offers for a start somewhere closer to home and with closer direct ties to the financial la la world of the EPL.  The only incentive I can think of is if they fancied a shot taking on Gerrards team and publicly emulating what he has done.  Basically a personal pride/friendly vendetta/bit of a laugh thing going on.  They wouldn't have dreamt of it previously until Gerrard came up and made such a regrettably good job of it.

And I completely agree with the need for the young pro to have experience behind him.

Id also add that for every Gerrard (plus Beale plus Mcallister) there's a Rooney.   

[aberdeen1970]

1 minute ago, strachanmcgheegoal said:

Everyone accepts young managers of the calibre mentioned wouldn't come here as they've no need to - they neither need the money nor will they be short of offers for a start somewhere closer to home and with closer direct ties to the financial la la world of the EPL.  The only incentive I can think of is if they fancied a shot taking on Gerrards team and publicly emulating what he has done.  Basically a personal pride/friendly vendetta/bit of a laugh thing going on.  They wouldn't have dreamt of it previously until Gerrard came up and made such a regrettably good job of it.

And I completely agree with the need for the young pro to have experience behind him.

Id also add that for every Gerrard (plus Beale plus Mcallister) there's a Rooney.   

Bit harsh on Rooney 

Whilst I'm not suggesting he's a good manager he inherited the biggest load of shit ever from Cocu. Then was faced with a transfer embargo and a points deduction. 

Quite a lot for any new manager to deal with. 

[starryfish]

5 minutes ago, strachanmcgheegoal said:

Everyone accepts young managers of the calibre mentioned wouldn't come here as they've no need to - they neither need the money nor will they be short of offers for a start somewhere closer to home and with closer direct ties to the financial la la world of the EPL.  The only incentive I can think of is if they fancied a shot taking on Gerrards team and publicly emulating what he has done.  Basically a personal pride/friendly vendetta/bit of a laugh thing going on.  They wouldn't have dreamt of it previously until Gerrard came up and made such a regrettably good job of it.

And I completely agree with the need for the young pro to have experience behind him.

Id also add that for every Gerrard (plus Beale plus Mcallister) there's a Rooney.   

Gerrard has had more than a bit of luck at Rangers. No doubting he has done well overall in Europe but just prior to the 2020 lockdown the natives were getting extremely restless and they were dropping points left right and centre, the break definitely came at a good time for him.

[Andy_123]

Gerrard has been surrounded by experienced guys at the huns though.

Might not have made any difference here but the same can’t be said for Glass. Nobody around him with any experience of anything really - DOF, assistants, coaches. 

[shooftahmooftah]

Glass offering considine extended contract,  how old is he 35, (the glass has a hole in it. ???  ).   
 

 

[strachanmcgheegoal]

experienced guys and (borrowed) money lest we forget

Id be genuinely interested to listen in on a call from (say) a Lampard, Neville or whoever to Gerrard about them potentially taking on a job up here.  Genuinely interested to hear what he thought.

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, shooftahmooftah said:

If by end of October glass fails to get any points on board will Cormack have the guts to sack him. ??????   

Out of the thousands of posts on the forum of late the question above burns the brightest.

Dundee away is, realistically, our only hope of securing a point, let alone a win.

Whatever the case we are going to be rooted in the bottom six come bonfire night. 

Cormack will most probably have his head in the sand at present, desperately hoping that we earn some decent results during the next four matches.

Come the beginning of November, as Shoofta says, will he have the guts to admit that the Glass project has failed?

I, personally, think no and that our torment will last for a while thereafter.

However, regardless of his millions, DC will be judged by many on how he, ultimately, handles the mess of his own creation.

To admit failure and appoint a more experienced manager will, in time, be forgiven. To drag the nightmare on and on, in a stubborn, egotistical way will lose any respect he may still have from a large section of the support.

 

[jamiesd]

I thought it was only a year deal anyway. so i doubt Cormack would have any hesitation in pulling the trigger

[Ernie McCracken]

7 minutes ago, Woody21 said:

Out of the thousands of posts on the forum of late the question above burns the brightest.

Dundee away is, realistically, our only hope of securing a point, let alone a win.

Whatever the case we are going to be rooted in the bottom six come bonfire night. 

Cormack will most probably have his head in the sand at present, desperately hoping that we earn some decent results during the next four matches.

Come the beginning of November, as Shoofta says, will he have the guts to admit that the Glass project has failed?

I, personally, think no and that our torment will last for a while thereafter.

However, regardless of his millions, DC will be judged by many on how he, ultimately, handles the mess of his own creation.

To admit failure and appoint a more experienced manager will, in time, be forgiven. To drag the nightmare on and on, in a stubborn, egotistical way will lose any respect he may still have from a large section of the support.

 

Agree he has to go now before anymore damage is done.

Imagine if we sell Ramsay for £5 or £6 million in Jan. It would be an absolute travesty if that cash was given to Stephen Glass to spend (waste) in the transfer market. 

[WesthillWanderersFC]

6 minutes ago, jamiesd said:

I thought it was only a year deal anyway. so i doubt Cormack would have any hesitation in pulling the trigger

Aside from his ego & him very publicly saying (almost certainly lying) that out of 100 applicants & a shortlist of 6(?), he was the outstanding candidate.

For him to pull the trigger at say the end of October, would be a massive dent to that ego & him admitting he made a huge error.  

[Don_Corleone]

If we go through October without a win, that'll be about 12 or 13 games without a win - that's got to be the verge of sacking form... if we fail to win any of them but there are some good performances and signs of improvement, that might buy him a bit more time... but if the non-winning streak goes much beyond that to 14, 15 games there's absolutely no way he can stay. The fans won't have it - and Cormack does to some extent seem to be keen to please the fans.

As it's just a year's contract he's on, it won't cost much to just pull the plug half way through the season. The problem is what happens next... if he goes for a more tried and tested "SPL experience" manager, how does that align with the "progressive" vision of the club? If he goes for another slightly leftfield appointment, there's the same risk as with Glass. 

I think, as others have mentioned, we need an interesting appointment, but either someone with experience himself, or a forward thinking younger manager who is supported by an experienced backroom team.

[Don_Corleone]

4 minutes ago, WesthillWanderersFC said:

Aside from his ego & him very publicly saying (almost certainly lying) that out of 100 applicants & a shortlist of 6(?), he was the outstanding candidate.

For him to pull the trigger at say the end of October, would be a massive dent to that ego & him admitting he made a huge error.  

He'll find a way to do it... ie give Glass some extra cash to make it look like he has "resigned" because the pressures of the job are too much, or because he is missing the US... or Atlanta want him back to coach their U12 girls team or something.

"Atlanta were keen to take Stephen back to fill a vacancy there, and Stephen has been missing his friends and family in the States, which may have been one of the reasons results here haven't been so good, so he felt it was best for all parties for him to take up the opportunity over there again."

[DD1903]

2 hours ago, jamiesd said:

I thought it was only a year deal anyway. so i doubt Cormack would have any hesitation in pulling the trigger

Rolling year contract

[WesthillWanderersFC]

2 hours ago, Don_Corleone said:

He'll find a way to do it... ie give Glass some extra cash to make it look like he has "resigned" because the pressures of the job are too much, or because he is missing the US... or Atlanta want him back to coach their U12 girls team or something.

"Atlanta were keen to take Stephen back to fill a vacancy there, and Stephen has been missing his friends and family in the States, which may have been one of the reasons results here haven't been so good, so he felt it was best for all parties for him to take up the opportunity over there again."

That’s even less believable than Cormack insisting there was a proper interview process. 

[muttonhumper]

38 minutes ago, DD1903 said:

Rolling year contract

Definition  of this seems a bit open ended.

 

Often, rolling contracts provide that the contract will automatically renew after the expiry of the initial term unless one of the parties provides notice to terminate the agreement.

 

A 'rolling contract' is a contract which can be terminated by notice given at any time.

 

 “rolling contracts” are common place in commercial and consumer agreements. Although they can take many forms, rolling contracts usually provide that the contract shall continue or “roll over” after the end of the initial term of the contact, often on the same terms.

On the one hand they can conveniently allow for parties to continue a successful relationship on agreeable terms. On the other hand, if the original relationship was not successful, or the terms are disagreeable or unappealing going forwards, rolling contracts can tie parties into an unattractive and potentially costly agreement.

 

 

Then this ham-fisted pish. ?

What is a rolling 12 month contract?

Rolling 12 Month Period means, as of the end of any Month, the average of the Monthly Availabilities from and including the first Month in the twelve (12) consecutive Months during the Delivery Period ending with such Month to and including such Month

 

 

 

 

 

[muttonhumper]

 

I'd imagine then, say we sacked him in January, we'd have to pay him the remainder of the year contract.

 

Or if he's doing okay, then another year contract kicks in the day of completing the first year given no notice or termination dictated by either party.

 

Fuck knows.

[Ten Caat]

At any given time, he has precisely one year left on his contract. So to punt him  costs us exactly one year's salary.

It won't be anywhere near McInnes levels but still wouldn't be cheap to do

[slippers]

11 minutes ago, muttonhumper said:

 

I'd imagine then, say we sacked him in January, we'd have to pay him the remainder of the year contract.

 

Or if he's doing okay, then another year contract kicks in the day of completing the first year given no notice or termination dictated by either party.

 

Fuck knows.

I wasn't sure if no matter when we sack him he has a year pay off. 

It was sickening enough to sell McKenna and Cosgrove for decent money and it be cover covid losses but its looking very likely if we sell Ferguson/Ramsey it will be used too cover the losses Glass has created. Its all very well speculating to accumulate but expectations are raised and hope the costs will be covered by Europe or potentially group stages. We have no doubt raised our budget by quite a sizeable amount and for the first season in a long time we potentially will not have European football and playing in league cup groups for the first time. What a sobering thought. 

[aberdeen1970]

10 minutes ago, muttonhumper said:

 

I'd imagine then, say we sacked him in January, we'd have to pay him the remainder of the year contract.

 

Or if he's doing okay, then another year contract kicks in the day of completing the first year given no notice or termination dictated by either party.

 

Fuck knows.

As you say there are different types of rolling contracts and the termination and renewal clauses will differ from contract to contract. 

There's no single definition.   

The model proposed that every new day means he still has a year left is far too simplistic. 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, slippers said:

I wasn't sure if no matter when we sack him he has a year pay off. 

It was sickening enough to sell McKenna and Cosgrove for decent money and it be cover covid losses but its looking very likely if we sell Ferguson/Ramsey it will be used too cover the losses Glass has created. Its all very well speculating to accumulate but expectations are raised and hope the costs will be covered by Europe or potentially group stages. We have no doubt raised our budget by quite a sizeable amount and for the first season in a long time we potentially will not have European football and playing in league cup groups for the first time. What a sobering thought. 

Playing in league cup groups against Forfar, Peterhead and the like is indeed a sobering prospect.

Wonder what the "happy clappers", if there are any left, would say to that?

[WesthillWanderersFC]

It’s so predictable (& sad) that we’re genuinely discussing sacking SG and we’re not even at October yet. 

Who saw this failure coming eh?

Oh aye…. most of us. 

 

[afc1903mad]

16 minutes ago, slippers said:

I wasn't sure if no matter when we sack him he has a year pay off. 

It was sickening enough to sell McKenna and Cosgrove for decent money and it be cover covid losses but its looking very likely if we sell Ferguson/Ramsey it will be used too cover the losses Glass has created. Its all very well speculating to accumulate but expectations are raised and hope the costs will be covered by Europe or potentially group stages. We have no doubt raised our budget by quite a sizeable amount and for the first season in a long time we potentially will not have European football and playing in league cup groups for the first time. What a sobering thought. 

I'm nae ready to throw in the towel and give up an appetite that we can make Europe and will end up playing League Cup group stages.

The season has a long way to go

 

[Zander1903]

18 minutes ago, WesthillWanderersFC said:

It’s so predictable (& sad) that we’re genuinely discussing sacking SG and we’re not even at October yet. 

Who saw this failure coming eh?

Oh aye…. most of us. 

 

hoped this wasna gonna happen but this was as gonna be a risk with a project manager

[WesthillWanderersFC]

8 minutes ago, Zander1903 said:

hoped this wasna gonna happen but this was as gonna be a risk with a project manager

Aye, I’d have been far happier holding my hands up & saying I got it badly wrong, as would have all the doubters.

It may happen yet, but that isn’t looking very likely though.