In the News

[Matt Armstrong's Dog]

23 minutes ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

The Petroineos Refinery at Grangemouth is to close by 2025, leaving just a tank farm and jetty operating as a fuel import terminal.

(The separate Ineos Petrochemical site will remain too).

Pretty shit news for a lot of people sadly, likely to be 100s of high quality job losses.

Feel bad for the people of the local area, as the site took on a lot of apprentices etc.  A lot of decent people work there.

The writing had been on the wall for a few years tbh.

Apparently the Refinery accounted for 4% of Scotland's GDP too, so the SNPs GERS figures are going to get even worse....... 

That's an economic disaster the ruling self-indulgent Holyrood administration simply cannot dodge.

The refinery used to take on a lot of school leavers as apprentices through Shell from our area (as well as other areas of Scotland).

Why the fuck was this allowed to happen and why did the government not intervene to save the refinery as surely they were aware of this eventuality if no positive action was taken?

The unmistakable whiff of sulphur when passing the refinery en route to Westfields Stadium in Falkirk.....close to extinction.

 

 

[Matt Armstrong's Dog]

3 minutes ago, Redforever86 said:

Fucks it got to with the SNP, it’s uk policy decisions that’s causing it to close surely. 

So what's the point of having a Scottish Government if they don't intervene in such a matter that is going to hammer local, regional, and national economies?

If they don't have the requisite devolved power to make the necessary decisions and take action to save the refinery from closure, why didn’t/don't the MPs who represent this immediate and surrounding area raise this as a huge matter of concern in Westminster?

[For Fecks Sake]

33 minutes ago, Redforever86 said:

Fucks it got to with the SNP, it’s uk policy decisions that’s causing it to close surely. 

As we have already seen too many times unfortunately, very rarely will either the UK or Scottish Govt get involved with stepping in to save jobs in a private company.

[Howard Marks]

On 11/21/2023 at 3:09 PM, RAZOR said:

Loved orange soda.

That was Kel.

[Edwin Starr]

Stuart Seldowitz

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/22/us/seldowitz-ex-obama-official-islamophobic-comments/

Unbelievable

[RAZOR]

2 hours ago, Howard Marks said:

That was Kel.

[Poodler]

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-67494374
 

 

fair play to her for doubling down 

 

 

really respect her for that. If she ever does an onlyfans, I’ll pay for it.

[milne_afc]

2 minutes ago, Poodler said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-67494374
 

 

fair play to her for doubling down 

 

 

really respect her for that. If she ever does an onlyfans, I’ll pay for it.

Honourable mention of big Sue standing up for her beliefs ❤️

[Don Fonte]

32 minutes ago, Poodler said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-67494374
 

 

fair play to her for doubling down 

 

 

really respect her for that. If she ever does an onlyfans, I’ll pay for it.

I would very much like to take her for a romantic moonlit walk.

 

 

 

 

(Then take her HAFUTA)

[Clydeside_Sheep]

7 hours ago, Redforever86 said:

Fucks it got to with the SNP, it’s uk policy decisions that’s causing it to close surely. 

Of course, that great "get out of jail card" for Holyrood!

In reality, they just cant make money off of it, the margins are too tight.  It runs at a fraction of its capacity meaning its really uneconomical.

The SNP govt declared its outright hostility to the oil industry and said there should be no more north sea development.  They also got into bed with far left green extremists.

Had they cared about their "just transition" they would have advocated adequate north sea development to keep it running at an economical rate, until such a time it could be reasonably be retired.  I figured that would be in my lifetime, but I didnt think quite so soon.  They are the Scottish Government after all, what have they done to try to help?  No Maggie Thatcher to blame this time.

There is no reason it cant be saved somehow, there still plenty of money in the business.  My work has projects for a refinery in england right now and also the new oil terminal being built in shetland.

This will royally fuck the area I fear, towns like Grangemouth, Bo'ness, Falkirk, Larbert etc.  Some people might be lucky and get into the remaining petrochemicals bit.  Sad, as the people from these places are genuinely decent people, I prefer them to us weegies or the ayrshire huns.

Think of all the local businesss who will also suffer - all the suppliers etc, down to the level of the burger vans parked outside the fenceline.  Even the mechanics I used for years will be hit by this (they had a captive client base in the Refinery)

It is really the last death rattle of the indy movement, with 4% of our GDP and 8% of our manufacturing base going in one fell swoop.  it will be bad enough relying on imports as it is, but imagine being outside the UK and imports was  your only source for fuels, chemical feedstocks etc.

The Finnart Oil Terminal on Loch Long will also shut because of this.  Ships can dock there and import oil right across the entire country to the tanks at Kinneil, feeding the Refinery.  Pretty impressive (or it was).

Grangemouth supplied fuel for the north of england too, so far reaching implications.

Ina shot of huge hypocrisy, the local Green MSP Gillian Mackay is up in arms, wanting to meet the Unions and demanding a summit etc.  Truly amazing and utterly shameless.  Shows how thick some voters are.

 

[Clydeside_Sheep]

7 hours ago, For Fecks Sake said:

As we have already seen too many times unfortunately, very rarely will either the UK or Scottish Govt get involved with stepping in to save jobs in a private company.

The Scottish Government under Sturgeon did it regularly, but unfortunately made a real cock and balls of it every time, blowing huge wads of cash in return for fuck all.

Prestwick Airport, BiFab, Ferguson Marine, Lochaber Smelter Plant etc.

[Ke1t]

5 hours ago, Howard Marks said:

That was Kel.

Good at almost being me.

[Howard Marks]

1 hour ago, Ke1t said:

Good at almost being me.

Is it true? 

[Redforever86]

1 hour ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

Of course, that great "get out of jail card" for Holyrood!

In reality, they just cant make money off of it, the margins are too tight.  It runs at a fraction of its capacity meaning its really uneconomical.

The SNP govt declared its outright hostility to the oil industry and said there should be no more north sea development.  They also got into bed with far left green extremists.

Had they cared about their "just transition" they would have advocated adequate north sea development to keep it running at an economical rate, until such a time it could be reasonably be retired.  I figured that would be in my lifetime, but I didnt think quite so soon.  They are the Scottish Government after all, what have they done to try to help?  No Maggie Thatcher to blame this time.

There is no reason it cant be saved somehow, there still plenty of money in the business.  My work has projects for a refinery in england right now and also the new oil terminal being built in shetland.

This will royally fuck the area I fear, towns like Grangemouth, Bo'ness, Falkirk, Larbert etc.  Some people might be lucky and get into the remaining petrochemicals bit.  Sad, as the people from these places are genuinely decent people, I prefer them to us weegies or the ayrshire huns.

Think of all the local businesss who will also suffer - all the suppliers etc, down to the level of the burger vans parked outside the fenceline.  Even the mechanics I used for years will be hit by this (they had a captive client base in the Refinery)

It is really the last death rattle of the indy movement, with 4% of our GDP and 8% of our manufacturing base going in one fell swoop.  it will be bad enough relying on imports as it is, but imagine being outside the UK and imports was  your only source for fuels, chemical feedstocks etc.

The Finnart Oil Terminal on Loch Long will also shut because of this.  Ships can dock there and import oil right across the entire country to the tanks at Kinneil, feeding the Refinery.  Pretty impressive (or it was).

Grangemouth supplied fuel for the north of england too, so far reaching implications.

Ina shot of huge hypocrisy, the local Green MSP Gillian Mackay is up in arms, wanting to meet the Unions and demanding a summit etc.  Truly amazing and utterly shameless.  Shows how thick some voters are.

 

We really have to congratulate the SNP for taking jobs away from weegies and moving them all to Shetland, while building a brand new more efficient plant. Providing a great asset to Scotland for post independence. 
 

Bravo. 

[Redforever86]

8 hours ago, For Fecks Sake said:

As we have already seen too many times unfortunately, very rarely will either the UK or Scottish Govt get involved with stepping in to save jobs in a private company.

I wouldn’t want either govt to. But one doesn’t set corporation tax, fuel duties, freeports and have complete control over energy policy. 
 

Guess which one. 

[Ke1t]

2 hours ago, Howard Marks said:

Is it true? 

Almost.

[leftside]

6 hours ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

Of course, that great "get out of jail card" for Holyrood!

In reality, they just cant make money off of it, the margins are too tight.  It runs at a fraction of its capacity meaning its really uneconomical.

The SNP govt declared its outright hostility to the oil industry and said there should be no more north sea development.  They also got into bed with far left green extremists.

Had they cared about their "just transition" they would have advocated adequate north sea development to keep it running at an economical rate, until such a time it could be reasonably be retired.  I figured that would be in my lifetime, but I didnt think quite so soon.  They are the Scottish Government after all, what have they done to try to help?  No Maggie Thatcher to blame this time.

There is no reason it cant be saved somehow, there still plenty of money in the business.  My work has projects for a refinery in england right now and also the new oil terminal being built in shetland.

This will royally fuck the area I fear, towns like Grangemouth, Bo'ness, Falkirk, Larbert etc.  Some people might be lucky and get into the remaining petrochemicals bit.  Sad, as the people from these places are genuinely decent people, I prefer them to us weegies or the ayrshire huns.

Think of all the local businesss who will also suffer - all the suppliers etc, down to the level of the burger vans parked outside the fenceline.  Even the mechanics I used for years will be hit by this (they had a captive client base in the Refinery)

It is really the last death rattle of the indy movement, with 4% of our GDP and 8% of our manufacturing base going in one fell swoop.  it will be bad enough relying on imports as it is, but imagine being outside the UK and imports was  your only source for fuels, chemical feedstocks etc.

The Finnart Oil Terminal on Loch Long will also shut because of this.  Ships can dock there and import oil right across the entire country to the tanks at Kinneil, feeding the Refinery.  Pretty impressive (or it was).

Grangemouth supplied fuel for the north of england too, so far reaching implications.

Ina shot of huge hypocrisy, the local Green MSP Gillian Mackay is up in arms, wanting to meet the Unions and demanding a summit etc.  Truly amazing and utterly shameless.  Shows how thick some voters are.

 

Not sure how the Petrochem survives long term without the feedstock direct from the refinery, future feedstock transport costs will erode the margin to an unsustainable point. No refinery can survive without the latest bottom of the barrel technology e.g. LC Finer, and very few in Europe have the access to sufficient CAPEX to make it happen. 

There is no new oil terminal in Shetland, there is a potential repurposing of Sullom Voe, which will need huge tax breaks to move the various projects to execution. The current operator at SVT don't have the organization or basic project management competencies to deliver any of it, therefore if the first phase fails its unlikely any of the subsequent phases will go ahead. Its a very expensive place to execute projects, construction productivity is terrible as Petrofac and Total found out during Lagggan Tormore.

 

[Clydeside_Sheep]

9 hours ago, Redforever86 said:

I wouldn’t want either govt to. But one doesn’t set corporation tax, fuel duties, freeports and have complete control over energy policy. 
 

Guess which one. 

And thank heavens for that, given their record of delivery based on the taxes they do control (and have made the highest in the UK).

I wouldn't mind paying more tax, if we saw the benefit - good schools, good hospitals and good roads etc - but we dont.  

[Parklife]

It takes some level of cognitive dissonance to know that the UK Government controls all the levers & regulations to affect NS oil and gas, yet also put the blame for everything negative in the sector at the door of the Scottish Government.

Laughable stuff, CS.  

[Clydeside_Sheep]

4 hours ago, leftside said:

Not sure how the Petrochem survives long term without the feedstock direct from the refinery, future feedstock transport costs will erode the margin to an unsustainable point. No refinery can survive without the latest bottom of the barrel technology e.g. LC Finer, and very few in Europe have the access to sufficient CAPEX to make it happen. 

There is no new oil terminal in Shetland, there is a potential repurposing of Sullom Voe, which will need huge tax breaks to move the various projects to execution. The current operator at SVT don't have the organization or basic project management competencies to deliver any of it, therefore if the first phase fails its unlikely any of the subsequent phases will go ahead. Its a very expensive place to execute projects, construction productivity is terrible as Petrofac and Total found out during Lagggan Tormore.

 

Good post I agree, relying solely imports for important materials is a very delicate situation and vulnerable to cost.  Certainly not a situation that an independent nation should be in.

That said, Ineos has been importing fracked ethane from the US for years now, to feed the KG plant at Grangemouth.  It was in the same boat at the Refinery, with declining feed from the North Sea meaning it was at lower capacity and less economical. of course, this is hypocrisy in Scotland, give our politicians grandstanding about their own ban on fracking.

You are right about Shetland - I should have said "new oil stabilisation plant" at Sullom Voe, not "oil terminal".  its expected to run for 15 years, not much but better than nothing.

I am not hugely involved in that job, but from what I have experienced you are bang on about the current operators competence.  Apparently they proposed simply flaring off all the gas from the new plant, as if that would ever fly in todays world.  So they are now having to deal with the gas properly.  They had the gall to apply for an environmental award for this and nearly won!  🤪

I am going to apply for an environmental award because I am not needlessly throwing chemicals in the river clyde 😆

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BrianFaePerth]

But but climate change

[BrianFaePerth]

Time for lockdowns and mask mandates

https://news.sky.com/story/who-seeks-answers-from-china-about-mystery-outbreak-of-respiratory-illness-13014034

[Clydeside_Sheep]

7 minutes ago, Parklife said:

It takes some level of cognitive dissonance to know that the UK Government controls all the levers & regulations to affect NS oil and gas, yet also put the blame for everything negative in the sector at the door of the Scottish Government.

Laughable stuff, CS.  

The number of refineries in the UK has been dropping steadily.

The Scottish Government has been actively hostile to the oil industry, aided by their green toadies.

They talk about a "just transition" but do nothing to effect this - they seem to think its something the private sector will do.  Typical holyrood, all bluster and no substance.

Holyrood could have championed the refinery and north sea, proposed a run down plan to protect jobs, sought oil development to keep the operation economic or even made some intervention which they have done elsewhere (albeit badly).

But instead all they did was denigrate the industry and said it should be halted essentially asap.  

Its particularly short sighted by the nationalists given an oil refinery is a national strategic asset.  And independent country without a refinery is like one without a dock or an airport.

If businesses in Scotland are not profitable, they will go to the wall.  The Government of Scotland surely has some influence on this, even if only lobbying the UK government. 

If they don't have influence or do nothing with it, there is no reason for it to exist.  The parliament wasnt set up so SNP slobs could be flown to dubai and new york to bleat about the environment, or bang on about gaza etc.

You could see the real shock among SNP MSPs yesterday, and Green MSPs in particular, as the implications of their student politics came home to roost.  Saying they want oil to end was their easy meal ticket at holyrood, (they obviously didn't dream it would happen any time soon), but now they have to face the families and communities this will affect.  Nauseating to see the Greens acting all angry about this, while they will be gloating behind closed doors.   

I look forward to Humza's solution.  Apparently the people losing their jobs will be asked if they know anything about building ferries........

[Ramandu]

Those crazy Dutch! So mischievous, always up to no good.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67504272

 

[Parklife]

3 minutes ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

The number of refineries in the UK has been dropping steadily.

The Scottish Government has been actively hostile to the oil industry, aided by their green toadies.

They talk about a "just transition" but do nothing to effect

Stopped reading here. 

[cheesepipes]

15 minutes ago, Ramandu said:

Those crazy Dutch! So mischievous, always up to no good.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67504272

 

Hopefully the French puffy granny shagger is next to be dethroned.

[Redforever86]

56 minutes ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

The number of refineries in the UK has been dropping steadily.

The Scottish Government has been actively hostile to the oil industry, aided by their green toadies.

They talk about a "just transition" but do nothing to effect this - they seem to think its something the private sector will do.  Typical holyrood, all bluster and no substance.

Holyrood could have championed the refinery and north sea, proposed a run down plan to protect jobs, sought oil development to keep the operation economic or even made some intervention which they have done elsewhere (albeit badly).

But instead all they did was denigrate the industry and said it should be halted essentially asap.  

Its particularly short sighted by the nationalists given an oil refinery is a national strategic asset.  And independent country without a refinery is like one without a dock or an airport.

If businesses in Scotland are not profitable, they will go to the wall.  The Government of Scotland surely has some influence on this, even if only lobbying the UK government. 

If they don't have influence or do nothing with it, there is no reason for it to exist.  The parliament wasnt set up so SNP slobs could be flown to dubai and new york to bleat about the environment, or bang on about gaza etc.

You could see the real shock among SNP MSPs yesterday, and Green MSPs in particular, as the implications of their student politics came home to roost.  Saying they want oil to end was their easy meal ticket at holyrood, (they obviously didn't dream it would happen any time soon), but now they have to face the families and communities this will affect.  Nauseating to see the Greens acting all angry about this, while they will be gloating behind closed doors.   

I look forward to Humza's solution.  Apparently the people losing their jobs will be asked if they know anything about building ferries........

Imagine if we were an independent country and we could vote for a political party that cared about saving the refinery and saving Scottish jobs. 
 

But we aren’t and we can’t because Westminster doesn’t give a shit about you. 

[JumboJET]

3 minutes ago, Redforever86 said:

Imagine if we were an independent country and we could vote for a political party that cared about saving the refinery and saving Scottish jobs. 
 

But we aren’t and we can’t because Westminster doesn’t give a shit about you. 

But Scotland is too small and too reliant on England to be an independent country.

You wouldn't want your region going bankrupt and then cease to exist altogether would you? It's better for you to keep suckling our teats. 

[Redforever86]

4 minutes ago, JumboJET said:

But Scotland is too small and too reliant on England to be an independent country.

You wouldn't want your region going bankrupt and then cease to exist altogether would you? It's better for you to keep suckling our teats. 

Why stop at teats Clydeside will deep throat you if softly sing rule Britannia to him. 

[For Fecks Sake]

13 minutes ago, Redforever86 said:

Imagine if we were an independent country and we could vote for a political party that cared about saving the refinery and saving Scottish jobs. 
 

But we aren’t and we can’t because Westminster doesn’t give a shit about you. 

Indeed imagine the royal fuck up they could make in the process of shoring it up while costing the Scottish Tax payers a fortune along the way. Exactly like they "cared" about Prestwick Airport, BiFab, Ferguson Marine, Lochaber Smelter Plant etc.