Parity for Women's Football

[RedRevolution]

Last week a female friend passionately made a case for parity of salary for the AFC ladies team. She says there is unrest that this isn't being pushed along faster. I suggested that it was a non starter because salary / remuneration should be based on the revenue the project can generate and not on some notion of equality. Certainly there can be equality of opportunity but that has to take account of the cost / risk of creating the opportunity in the first place. She argues that women have rights to equal pay in other professions and so football can't be treated differently. I suggested that any substantial increase in costs clubs abandoning women's football. I'm being accused of old fashioned biased thinking - but it seems logical to me. I'd be interested on what the general view was. I have to declare I never read or watch any of the afc women's footage. I'm all for women playing football if they want but it's not something that captures my interest. On the same note I get bored quickly watching other men's teams unless its a great game - I'd rather watch AFC than any champions league or English Premiership match.

[aberdeen1970]

Just now, RedRevolution said:

Last week a female friend passionately made a case for parity of salary for the AFC ladies team. She says there is unrest that this isn't being pushed along faster. I suggested that it was a non starter because salary / remuneration should be based on the revenue the project can generate and not on some notion of equality. Certainly there can be equality of opportunity but that has to take account of the cost / risk of creating the opportunity in the first place. She argues that women have rights to equal pay in other professions and so football can't be treated differently. I suggested that any substantial increase in costs clubs abandoning women's football. I'm being accused of old fashioned biased thinking - but it seems logical to me. I'd be interested on what the general view was. I have to declare I never read or watch any of the afc women's footage. I'm all for women playing football if they want but it's not something that captures my interest. On the same note I get bored quickly watching other men's teams unless its a great game - I'd rather watch AFC than any champions league or English Premiership match.

I'd say it's extremely difficult to calculate financial parity for individual players in club football across genders. 

Where do you start? 

Should the Tottenham female striker get the same weekly wage as Harry Kane? 

 

[bonzodaddy73]

9 minutes ago, RedRevolution said:

Last week a female friend passionately made a case for parity of salary for the AFC ladies team. She says there is unrest that this isn't being pushed along faster. I suggested that it was a non starter because salary / remuneration should be based on the revenue the project can generate and not on some notion of equality. Certainly there can be equality of opportunity but that has to take account of the cost / risk of creating the opportunity in the first place. She argues that women have rights to equal pay in other professions and so football can't be treated differently. I suggested that any substantial increase in costs clubs abandoning women's football. I'm being accused of old fashioned biased thinking - but it seems logical to me. I'd be interested on what the general view was. I have to declare I never read or watch any of the afc women's footage. I'm all for women playing football if they want but it's not something that captures my interest. On the same note I get bored quickly watching other men's teams unless its a great game - I'd rather watch AFC than any champions league or English Premiership match.

Get them to play the men and if they can keep it under 20 then they can talk. I take it the women don't actually watch womens football, if they did they wouldn't be asking for parity.

[Bournemouth Gee]

Do you think your friend understands the points she's trying to make? 

[Helmet]

This parity argument doesn't really work with sports teams that are commercial enterprises.

Its totally different to say the organisers of a tennis tournament being asked to create parity in the prize money.

Football clubs don't pay the same wages as each other and don't even pay the same wages to players in their own squads - it's all based on a merit and demand for each players services.

[Don Fonte]

23 minutes ago, RedRevolution said:

Last week a female friend passionately made a case for parity of salary for the AFC ladies team. She says there is unrest that this isn't being pushed along faster. I suggested that it was a non starter because salary / remuneration should be based on the revenue the project can generate and not on some notion of equality. Certainly there can be equality of opportunity but that has to take account of the cost / risk of creating the opportunity in the first place. She argues that women have rights to equal pay in other professions and so football can't be treated differently. I suggested that any substantial increase in costs clubs abandoning women's football. I'm being accused of old fashioned biased thinking - but it seems logical to me. I'd be interested on what the general view was. I have to declare I never read or watch any of the afc women's footage. I'm all for women playing football if they want but it's not something that captures my interest. On the same note I get bored quickly watching other men's teams unless its a great game - I'd rather watch AFC than any champions league or English Premiership match.

They're not doing the same job.  The Aberdeen ladies team aren't even full time.

It's nothing to do with the fact they are females. It's the fact that it's completely different.  They may play the same sport but that's it.

If they want equality then set the wage budget as a % of what income the team generates. They'd probably get paid less than they do now.

[Helmet]

13 minutes ago, bonzodaddy73 said:

Get them to play the men and if they can keep it under 20 then they can talk. I take it the women don't actually watch womens football, if they did they wouldn't be asking for parity.

We don't even need to set that sort of challenge.

For me it's simple, when women's football generates the same revenue through TV, gate receipts and sponsorship they'll have their parity.

All of those things require the football to be of a good enough standard that "all" football fans want to watch it - it isn't and so they don't.

[Don Fonte]

Forgot to add - any pics of your female friend?

[aberdeen1970]

Just now, Helmet said:

We don't even need to set that sort of challenge.

For me it's simple, when women's football generates the same revenue through TV, gate receipts and sponsorship they'll have their parity.

 

Yeah the best approach for them at the moment is to collectively grow their sport as an individual commercial entity. 

Realistic short term targets for parity should be through achieving access to better coaching and facilities/equipment. 

[Ten Caat]

20 minutes ago, bonzodaddy73 said:

Get them to play the men and if they can keep it under 20 then they can talk. I take it the women don't actually watch womens football, if they did they wouldn't be asking for parity.

They wouldn't be able to keep it under 20 against a bog standard boys U15 team

[Big Dode]

 

[Don Fonte]

16 minutes ago, Big Dode said:

 

That Glasgow Women team should get wage parity as well. Looks like they're highly skilled athletes.

[Hoofball]

Non starter for multiple reasons. 

The fanbase is significantly smaller. 
They won’t bring in the same amount of money in sponsorship as the men’s team does. 
There is a lack of interest in woman’s football compared to men’s. 
The product on display is of a significantly poorer quality.

[don corleone]

Do we have to have a womans team? Can't we just get it away to fuck. It seems like an incredible waste of resources, I genuinely couldn't give a fuck about women's football, the standard is atrocious. 

[BaaBaaRedSheep]

11 minutes ago, don corleone said:

Do we have to have a womans team? Can't we just get it away to fuck. It seems like an incredible waste of resources, I genuinely couldn't give a fuck about women's football, the standard is atrocious. 

Totally agree. 

It's a tick box exercise at best, money could be better spent elsewhere. 

[Ke1t]

2 hours ago, RedRevolution said:

Last week a female friend passionately made a case for parity of salary for the AFC ladies team. She says there is unrest that this isn't being pushed along faster. I suggested that it was a non starter because salary / remuneration should be based on the revenue the project can generate and not on some notion of equality. Certainly there can be equality of opportunity but that has to take account of the cost / risk of creating the opportunity in the first place. She argues that women have rights to equal pay in other professions and so football can't be treated differently. I suggested that any substantial increase in costs clubs abandoning women's football. I'm being accused of old fashioned biased thinking - but it seems logical to me. I'd be interested on what the general view was. I have to declare I never read or watch any of the afc women's footage. I'm all for women playing football if they want but it's not something that captures my interest. On the same note I get bored quickly watching other men's teams unless its a great game - I'd rather watch AFC than any champions league or English Premiership match.

Women's football is shite. 

When they can play as well as the men they can be considered equals. 

Which will be never. 

[Dal Riata Don]

Football is entertainment and money in entertainment is related, in each subjective case, to the level people are willing to pay to be entertained, not gender equality.

(Randomly) Mariha Carey can charge more for concert tickets (I'm sure) than Ian Brown.  

The mistake being made is to confuse entertainment based jobs with skills based jobs. 

Skills based jobs should be paid equally because the work being done is of objectivley equal value.

Male and female doctors or likewise factory workers should be paid the same provided they are equally qualified and experienced.

 

[CCB III]

2 hours ago, RedRevolution said:

Last week a female friend passionately made a case for parity of salary for the AFC ladies team. She says there is unrest that this isn't being pushed along faster. I suggested that it was a non starter because salary / remuneration should be based on the revenue the project can generate and not on some notion of equality. Certainly there can be equality of opportunity but that has to take account of the cost / risk of creating the opportunity in the first place. She argues that women have rights to equal pay in other professions and so football can't be treated differently. I suggested that any substantial increase in costs clubs abandoning women's football. I'm being accused of old fashioned biased thinking - but it seems logical to me. I'd be interested on what the general view was. I have to declare I never read or watch any of the afc women's footage. I'm all for women playing football if they want but it's not something that captures my interest. On the same note I get bored quickly watching other men's teams unless its a great game - I'd rather watch AFC than any champions league or English Premiership match.

Nice idea but it's a non starter. 
 

They don't attract enough bums in seats, or television revenue to justify the payment being the same. 
 

There's a question to be had whether it's worthwhile for a club in our league to have a woman's football team considering our relatively shoestring budget.

 

As far as I'm aware most  clubs in Champ/League 1/2 of England don't have a wifies team? Unless that's changed? 
 

It works as a branding extension for the super rich, globalised clubs. But, for us and the like, it appears to simply be a money pit that would be better spent going into the main operation. 
 

All for the club having a team that represents us but they should be amateur. There's not a logical argument that a Scottish womans player should be earning 3/4 K a week. 
 

Edit to add; 

 

The boy Clunes on the AFCHereWeGo podcast suggested that he'd been told we literally couldn't recruit anyone to take the place as the women team manager. 
 

It's a bit of a farce. 

[Bournemouth Gee]

5 minutes ago, CCB III said:

The boy Clunes on the AFCHereWeGo podcast suggested that he'd been told we literally couldn't recruit anyone to take the place as the women team manager. 

@Don Fonte?

[Don Fonte]

1 minute ago, Bournemouth Gee said:

@Don Fonte?

You offering me the job?

[Daisy1903]

Sounds fair to me. Then Morris, Richardson and Co should get parity of wages with the Man City team

[Dave Bus]

Are the woman’s team already not self sustaining? We shouldn’t be spending any money out our own pocket propping up the woman’s team, we’re skint as it is.

[Redtillimdead]

The standard of woman's football just isn't good enough. The goalkeepers are especially terrible. They should consider making the goals slightly smaller. 

The woman's world cup, which should be the pinnacle of womans football was a diabolical standard. 

[NEM]

On 2/12/2023 at 5:04 PM, don corleone said:

Do we have to have a womans team? Can't we just get it away to fuck. It seems like an incredible waste of resources, I genuinely couldn't give a fuck about women's football, the standard is atrocious. 

Spot on.  The focus and presumably cash the club give to the wifeys team is an absolute nonsense.  If they want "parity" fine - away and stand on your own two feet.

[Durrant Dived]

This topic doesn't even deserve a mention in the inferior spfl games thread.

[Andy_123]

On 2/12/2023 at 3:34 PM, Helmet said:

This parity argument doesn't really work with sports teams that are commercial enterprises.

Its totally different to say the organisers of a tennis tournament being asked to create parity in the prize money.

Football clubs don't pay the same wages as each other and don't even pay the same wages to players in their own squads - it's all based on a merit and demand for each players services.

 

Correct. There isn't even wage parity within the mens game. Footballers wages are directly linked to the revenue the club brings in. Womens football does not bring in the same sort of revenue as mens football, so the wages aren't going to be the same. It's not difficult to comprehend. 

Then there's the quality argument. Womens football is light years away from being anywhere near the level of quality of mens football. That is undeniable. In any business, why would you pay two people the same wage if one of them is vastly inferior at their job?

 

 

[Dons79]

 

 

seems fair enough the parity argument😁

[dave_min]

53 minutes ago, Andy_123 said:

Correct. There isn't even wage parity within the mens game. Footballers wages are directly linked to the revenue the club brings in. Womens football does not bring in the same sort of revenue as mens football, so the wages aren't going to be the same. It's not difficult to comprehend. 

Then there's the quality argument. Womens football is light years away from being anywhere near the level of quality of mens football. That is undeniable. In any business, why would you pay two people the same wage if one of them is vastly inferior at their job?

Take it you’re nae big in O&G?

[thedandydon]

No denying the women’s game has made giant strides these last few years but think it’s a case of trying to run before you can jump asking for wage parity at this juncture. The EPL has enough money sloshing around to develop their women’s teams and the WPL is already the front-runner in the women’s game. Outside Europe’s big clubs though, the game is still in its infancy. Certainly the case in Scotland, where there’s still little interest and the pool of talent pretty shallow. As others have said, it needs to be self-sustaining before such thoughts can be taken seriously.

I will say this though, with the men’s game almost entirely swallowed up by PPV channels these days, the free-to-air channels can definitely given them the exposure to build their fanbase.

[Joe pike]

1 hour ago, Dons79 said:

 

 

seems fair enough the parity argument😁

The one in the blue top is pregnant.