Next Manager

[dave_min]

4 minutes ago, ullevi said:

Calvin Ramsay would never had got a chance under him either, he would have given Shay Logan another year therefore Ramsay would never have been seen. 

Maybe yes, maybe no. It’s easy to rewrite history for any agenda.

Shay could probably still walk into our team and not look too far out of place.

[RDS]

35 minutes ago, Millertime said:

If it was as simple as looking at a database, we would have no chance as teams with much more money than us would have bought the guys before us

There is no way this "wyscout" approach is any better

Watch the film Moneyball to get a general idea of how data helps sourcing players with specific traits. Also not as simple as just looking at database but as part of overall recruitment it gives initial access to much wider player pool than an individual scout could ever cover and saves costs as we don't need to employ a scout in every country to watch dozens of games but can follow up specific targets. If you read my post it identifies targets on our playing level that we can afford. We're not going to look at a La Liga player at Real Madrid as bigger clubs with more money buy them but we target players suitable and attainable at our level. The Wyscout approach to use your terminology uses a database to analyse data but also has vast amount of footage of all the players to watch and review before deciding whether it's worth going to watch them in actual games using a traditional scout. The software helps narrow down to realistic targets who as I said are affordable but also that Aberdeen could be attractive to

[donswin1983]

1 hour ago, Turra red said:

Surely every person gets judged on individual merit?

John 3.14 

amen..

[Tord31]

THIS THREAD WILL NEVER END. EVER.

[Millertime]

22 minutes ago, minijc said:

It's not so much the database it's how you use it and what you look for.

I will tell you one thing though, we definitely don't sign Duk or Miovski by sticking with Russ Richardson and his database of players coming back from serious injuries.

Yep

2 really good ones

One generally good one (ramadani)

Rest, keech 

Pretty keech hit rate

[Millertime]

27 minutes ago, Willo flood said:

Kilmarnock*

Hilarious 

[Millertime]

10 minutes ago, RDS said:

You referring to Russ Richardson who is employed by Kilmarnock FC and not Liverpool ? 

He wasn't against but preferred his narrow search as he's continued to follow at Kilmarnock using his trusted recruitment guy Russ R and wasn't overly keen on spreading countries players sourced from and revised system overall being the system that also identified Ramadani, Rubezic, Duz and Miovski

Wait

Mcinnes lured a scout from Liverpool?

WOW

genuinely didn't know that

[Millertime]

5 minutes ago, RDS said:

Watch the film Moneyball to get a general idea of how data helps sourcing players with specific traits. Also not as simple as just looking at database but as part of overall recruitment it gives initial access to much wider player pool than an individual scout could ever cover and saves costs as we don't need to employ a scout in every country to watch dozens of games but can follow up specific targets. If you read my post it identifies targets on our playing level that we can afford. We're not going to look at a La Liga player at Real Madrid as bigger clubs with more money buy them but we target players suitable and attainable at our level

It doesn't make sense though 

If its as simple as that,  other teams do it surely

What's the catch?

Can we only search for a few attributes and the rest are hidden?

[Hagi's pubic hair]

24 minutes ago, minijc said:

It's not so much the database it's how you use it and what you look for.

Not sure Gunn knows how to query a mysql DB.

[ullevi]

7 minutes ago, dave_min said:

Maybe yes, maybe no. It’s easy to rewrite history for any agenda.

Shay could probably still walk into our team and not look too far out of place.

It isn’t tecwriting history though, McInnes wanted Logan to play 15 games I think it was that season to trigger another year on his contract, he would have started the next season as our right back and Ramsay would have been loaned out to Peterhead and would never have seen the big move. 

[Ernie McCracken]

3 minutes ago, Millertime said:

Yep

2 really good ones

One generally good one (ramadani)

Rest, keech 

Pretty keech hit rate

I think other teams probably ensure they use it to create an effective team rather than sign one or two good players.

We on the other hand, decide to ignore key areas of them team, and think fuck it we'll address that  next summer.  Can only assume it's some misguided belief that having the likes of Duk, Miovski and Clarkson will somehow make up for the lack of any sort of combative players.

[donswin1983]

14 minutes ago, RDS said:

Watch the film Moneyball to get a general idea of how data helps sourcing players with specific traits. Also not as simple as just looking at database but as part of overall recruitment it gives initial access to much wider player pool than an individual scout could ever cover and saves costs as we don't need to employ a scout in every country to watch dozens of games but can follow up specific targets. If you read my post it identifies targets on our playing level that we can afford. We're not going to look at a La Liga player at Real Madrid as bigger clubs with more money buy them but we target players suitable and attainable at our level

Were yon baseball team not the pioneers of this though? Ie data driven recruitment in isolation. Great if nobody else is doing it and you gain, like they did a competitive edge. Now, in football, everyone is doing it and presumably looking at the same or similar data on each player. Therefore to @millertime’s point. Those with the best data, that tick the other human boxes too, are out of our league and end up in guffball etc.

maybe we need to create different data? Pie intake or frequency of Deliveroo orders, perhaps. 
we wouldn’t have signed the lad from Livingston with that data..

[Willo flood]

9 minutes ago, Millertime said:

Hilarious 

Wasn’t trying to be funny.

He is genuinely employed by Killmarnock, not by Liverpool as per your post.

[Millertime]

Just now, Willo flood said:

Wasn’t trying to be funny.

He is genuinely employed by Killmarnock, not by Liverpool as per your post.

Genuinely didn't know that, apologies

So a guy who clearly did so well for mcinnes was poached by Liverpool

Then mcinnes had the sort of pull he does and got a scout back from Liverpool?

Amazing 

[super_al]

Another day gone and still no manager. How long until we start panicking (for real)?

[RDS]

8 minutes ago, Millertime said:

It doesn't make sense though 

If its as simple as that,  other teams do it surely

What's the catch?

Can we only search for a few attributes and the rest are hidden?

Are you thick or just being contrary? Most other teams do use it. There's no catch it's just part of identifying potential players from suitable leagues worldwide. Your hidden attribute question is laughable. The software lists data on players and video footage so how can things be hidden.

[donswin1983]

2 minutes ago, super_al said:

Another day gone and still no manager. How long until we start panicking (for real)?

About 5 mins into the livi game at the start of the season…

[Tord31]

4 minutes ago, super_al said:

Another day gone and still no manager. How long until we start panicking (for real)?

beat Livvie or Dundee and theres no need for any panicking

[RDS]

14 minutes ago, Millertime said:

Wait

Mcinnes lured a scout from Liverpool?

WOW

genuinely didn't know that

Great try to cover up your balls up that you didn't know where Richardson was working nowadays and trying to make it impressive that hes back with DM who employed him at Bristol and here. He was one of many scouts used by Liverpool and not full time I believe and certainly  not Head of Recruitment so jumped at chance of full time role at Kilmarnock 

[Millertime]

5 minutes ago, RDS said:

Are you thick or just being contrary? Most other teams do use it. There's no catch it's just part of identifying potential players from suitable leagues worldwide. Your hidden attribute question is laughable. The software lists data on players and video footage so how can things be hidden.

You're the thick one pal

If its as simple as actual champ manager, then an infinite amount of clubs with more money than us will be using it in which case we will be at the proper scraps

[RUL]

29 minutes ago, ullevi said:

Calvin Ramsay would never had got a chance under him either, he would have given Shay Logan another year therefore Ramsay would never have been seen. 

Not true. Ramsay was identified by mcinnes at 15. He wanted him in a team then but rules meant he wasn’t allowed. Mcinnes would have picked him at 16

[Millertime]

1 minute ago, RDS said:

Great try to cover up your balls up that you didn't know where Richardson was working nowadays and trying to make it impressive that hes back with DM who employed him at Bristol and here. He was one of many scouts used by Liverpool and not full time I believe and certainly  not Head of Recruitment so jumped at chance of full time role at Kilmarnock 

Who mentioned head of recruitment?

What I said was fact

Try and think before replying in a blind rage

[Proud Dandy]

Just now, Millertime said:

Genuinely didn't know that, apologies

So a guy who clearly did so well for mcinnes was poached by Liverpool

Then mcinnes had the sort of pull he does and got a scout back from Liverpool?

Amazing 

A bit like Robson luring Jordan Miles from West Ham. Pity he couldn’t put up with the nose hawking 

[RDS]

8 minutes ago, donswin1983 said:

Were yon baseball team not the pioneers of this though? Ie data driven recruitment in isolation. Great if nobody else is doing it and you gain, like they did a competitive edge. Now, in football, everyone is doing it and presumably looking at the same or similar data on each player. Therefore to @millertime’s point. Those with the best data, that tick the other human boxes too, are out of our league and end up in guffball etc.

maybe we need to create different data? Pie intake or frequency of Deliveroo orders, perhaps. 
we wouldn’t have signed the lad from Livingston with that data..

Moneyball is the film about baseball team and guy that invented using a data approach for initial identification of possible suitable players. Again I'll explain we're looking for guys that can do a job at our level not looking to buy multi million players who'd have best data. Exactly same way we'd never have sent Richardson to scout Messi or other players who were obviously way out of our price range. Many clubs use same or similar software aa a tool to help but it's not only tool used as players then still watched, background checks done, contacts spoken to. To try and simplify things it's something in addition to what was done before and anyone taking a step back and being reasonable would see it's a good thing. Folk act like we look at a players data showing his speed, tackles and headers won and decide to sign him based on that alone

[RDS]

6 minutes ago, Millertime said:

You're the thick one pal

If its as simple as actual champ manager, then an infinite amount of clubs with more money than us will be using it in which case we will be at the proper scraps

Dear me you're dense or an argumentative imbecile. As always there are clubs with more money but not infinite (leave you to look up meaning in dictionary) and this method helps us keep up with others. We also have more money than many so not at proper scraps but hopefully dealing with players that we can afford

[Millertime]

Just now, RDS said:

Dear me you're dense or an argumentative imbecile. As always there are clubs with more money but not infinite (leave you to look up meaning in dictionary) and this method helps us keep up with others. We also have more money than many so not at proper scraps but hopefully dealing with players that we can afford

K

[RDS]

9 minutes ago, Millertime said:

Who mentioned head of recruitment?

What I said was fact

Try and think before replying in a blind rage

Not a rage. Laughing my head off at your stupidity or narrow mindedness

[Millertime]

25 minutes ago, ullevi said:

It isn’t tecwriting history though, McInnes wanted Logan to play 15 games I think it was that season to trigger another year on his contract, he would have started the next season as our right back and Ramsay would have been loaned out to Peterhead and would never have seen the big move. 

Not true anyway

Mcinnes loved him and earmarked him at 15 to play in our team, but rules wouldn't allow it

[Millertime]

Just now, RDS said:

Not a rage. Laughing my head off at your stupidity or narrow mindedness

Should have maybe engaged your brain into "thought' then as opposed to "hysterical mirth"

Either way, BLOCKED 

[fine-n-dandy]

22 minutes ago, Millertime said:

Yep

2 really good ones

One generally good one (ramadani)

Rest, keech 

Pretty keech hit rate

So you’re saying Devlin, McGrath & Clarkson also fall into the keech group?

 

Obviously Clarkson of this season has certainly been ‘keech’ by comparison to last & the optimism his signing brought but Devlin & McGrath have arguably performed better than expected when we signed them 

 

A lot of fairly decent (in some cases good) performers are being harshly assessed 99% via overall shitshow team performance.

This is why I find it so strange how Barron is being completely excused such judgement & is given more credit than he’s deserved (compared to a few) when he’s been in said same shitshow team overall.

 

Essentially what I am saying is that most folk have no clue & are unable to view (slightly neutrally) at individuals & taking account of bigger picture etc. 

They just pic out certain players & stick with them as main focus of harsh assessment unless they perform miracles in 2 games running at least so they can then transfer their pitchfork & torch over to the next ‘witch’ 🤣