Next Manager

[Millertime]

Just now, fine-n-dandy said:

So you’re saying Devlin, McGrath & Clarkson also fall into the keech group?

 

Obviously Clarkson of this season has certainly been ‘keech’ by comparison to last & the optimism his signing brought but Devlin & McGrath have arguably performed better than expected when we signed them 

 

A lot of fairly decent (in some cases good) performers are being harshly assessed 99% via overall shitshow team performance.

This is why I find it so strange how Barron is being completely excused such judgement & is given more credit than he’s deserved (compared to a few) when he’s been in said same shitshow team overall.

 

Essentially what I am saying is that most folk have no clue & are unable to view (slightly neutrally) at individuals & taking account of bigger picture etc. 

They just pic out certain players & stick with them as main focus of harsh assessment unless they perform miracles in 2 games running at least so they can then transfer their pitchfork & torch over to the next ‘witch’ 🤣

You think devlin mcgrath and Clarkson were with "wyscout"?

[ab24_5qh]

3 minutes ago, RDS said:

Dear me you're dense or an argumentative imbecile. 

I really don't think you should have used "or".

[Byrne Baby Byrne]

25 minutes ago, ullevi said:

It isn’t tecwriting history though, McInnes wanted Logan to play 15 games I think it was that season to trigger another year on his contract, he would have started the next season as our right back and Ramsay would have been loaned out to Peterhead and would never have seen the big move. 

Shay Logan played 12 games in Mcinnes’ last season and was loaned to Hearts by Mcinnes 😂

 

of course Ramsay would have played. If you were good enough for the first team you got a game. He gave plenty young guys a go, most of them just weren’t good enough. 
 

McKenna, smith, low, Campbell. Shankland given chances too, but just wasn’t as good as Rooney so how many chances do you give him.  Don’t remember any of them being blocked from the 1st team and sent on loan to Peterhead forever. 

[Proud Dandy]

7 minutes ago, Millertime said:

You're the thick one pal

If its as simple as actual champ manager, then an infinite amount of clubs with more money than us will be using it in which case we will be at the proper scraps

Exactly. If it’s readily available and easily useable for all, then any sporting arbitrage will cease to exist. 

The real difficulty is combining all that with a proper structure and good people running the club, which we (Cormack) has fucked up on.

A bit of balance would also be nice, signing a dozen unknown players from across the globe clearly has a lot higher risk and seems a crazy way to operate. 

Appointing a competent manager that knows what he’s doing would be a good start. 

 

[RDS]

1 minute ago, ab24_5qh said:

I really don't think you should have used "or".

I was trying to be polite but think I'm blocked anyway which I'll take as a badge of honour 🎖 

[donswin1983]

13 minutes ago, RDS said:

Moneyball is the film about baseball team and guy that invented using a data approach for initial identification of possible suitable players. Again I'll explain we're looking for guys that can do a job at our level not looking to buy multi million players who'd have best data. Exactly same way we'd never have sent Richardson to scout Messi or other players who were obviously way out of our price range. Many clubs use same or similar software aa a tool to help but it's not only tool used as players then still watched, background checks done, contacts spoken to. To try and simplify things it's something in addition to what was done before and anyone taking a step back and being reasonable would see it's a good thing. Folk act like we look at a players data showing his speed, tackles and headers won and decide to sign him based on that alone

I know we don’t sign on data alone, but we’re clearly looking for hidden gems, which the data will be used to highlight. My point being that every club, in A similar capacity to AFC is doing the same by applying the same data filters ie getting shot of data on ronaldo types, coz they’re not relevant to us. Surely the use of data in that regard makes it harder to sign these types, or drives their value up by perceived demand for the player.
i think the use of data is a good thing, supplementary to actual scouting, which i think is your point too. Makes it harder though, when everyone has the same data to sign a player 

[RDS]

5 minutes ago, Millertime said:

Should have maybe engaged your brain into "thought' then as opposed to "hysterical mirth"

Either way, BLOCKED 

🤣🤣🤣 You won't see this but very childish blocking someone on a forum but each to their own

[Byrne Baby Byrne]

1 hour ago, minijc said:

It's not so much the database it's how you use it and what you look for.

I will tell you one thing though, we definitely don't sign Duk or Miovski by sticking with Russ Richardson and his database of players coming back from serious injuries.

I really hope this experiment pays off eventually and we get it right. But that’s pretty depressing reading. There’s been about 6 transfer windows and millions spent and we have to boast about 2 players - one of which can’t even get a game for us regularly this season 😭

 

[fine-n-dandy]

6 minutes ago, Millertime said:

You think devlin mcgrath and Clarkson were with "wyscout"?

Why not? 
They would still have to ‘tick’ the required boxes of our ‘mantra/system’ after all 

Even if Clarkson was initially brought on loan with ‘good faith’ of him being a Liverpool player

[DD1903]

22 minutes ago, RUL said:

Not true. Ramsay was identified by mcinnes at 15. He wanted him in a team then but rules meant he wasn’t allowed. Mcinnes would have picked him at 16

Why didn’t he pick him after he turned 16 then? 

[donswin1983]

3 minutes ago, donswin1983 said:

I know we don’t sign on data alone, but we’re clearly looking for hidden gems, which the data will be used to highlight. My point being that every club, in A similar capacity to AFC is doing the same by applying the same data filters ie getting shot of data on ronaldo types, coz they’re not relevant to us. Surely the use of data in that regard makes it harder to sign these types, or drives their value up by perceived demand for the player.
i think the use of data is a good thing, supplementary to actual scouting, which i think is your point too. Makes it harder though, when everyone has the same data to sign a player 

@RDS

ignote that, min! I knew what I was trying to say, but articulated it terribly 😂

makes no sense on reading it back. Time to put away the bank holiday wine. 

[fine-n-dandy]

28 minutes ago, super_al said:

Another day gone and still no manager. How long until we start panicking (for real)?

Ffs we were never going to appoint a manager on April 1st. 
Club aren’t that ‘foolish’ (yet) to give press such easy headlines 🤣 

Today was a day of zero expectations. Save frustration for tomorrow 🤣

[RDS]

1 minute ago, donswin1983 said:

I know we don’t sign on data alone, but we’re clearly looking for hidden gems, which the data will be used to highlight. My point being that every club, in A similar capacity to AFC is doing the same by applying the same data filters ie getting shot of data on ronaldo types, coz they’re not relevant to us. Surely the use of data in that regard makes it harder to sign these types, or drives their value up by perceived demand for the player.
i think the use of data is a good thing, supplementary to actual scouting, which i think is your point too. Makes it harder though, when everyone has the same data to get a scout along in the 1st place..

That is my point. It's starting point before what we imagine as traditional scouting. Like all scouting you won't get 100% success rate and players will flop as happens with players bought for multi millions in top leagues. It's something that can use to help unearth someone we'd never otherwise know of and if we didn't use we'd be behind others but other club will be after same players as was always case with traditional method. Also bear in mind other clubs will have different ideas as to what they expect from say a right back or a central defender like speed, strong in air, good in certain systems etc etc etc as so many variables to weigh up

[The Hulk]

What @RDS is saying is pretty muchon the money.

Virtually every EPL & Championship team is doing things this way as are half the teams in our league.

It’s all about being able to measure performance. It isn’t only about scouting & recruiting from other clubs; it’s also about benchmarking and improving your current squad too; eg “why is this player not performing to the levels we expect based on the data? And if not, why not?” Are the coaches working properly, why aren’t they improving the players, and ultimately the player trading model, and wage bill.

What we traditionally called “scouts” are now more & more called analysts.

The “if not, why not” line is very relevant to what AFC is(n’t) doing properly.

[RDS]

5 minutes ago, fine-n-dandy said:

Why not? 
They would still have to ‘tick’ the required boxes of our ‘mantra/system’ after all 

Even if Clarkson was initially brought on loan with ‘good faith’ of him being a Liverpool player

Glad someone understands the way it's used

[RDS]

2 minutes ago, The Hulk said:

What @RDS is saying is pretty muchon the money.

Virtually every EPL & Championship team is doing things this way as are half the teams in our league.

It’s all about being able to measure performance. It isn’t only about scouting & recruiting from other clubs; it’s also about benchmarking and improving your current squad too; eg “why is this player not performing to the levels we expect based on the data? And if not, why not?” Are the coaches working properly, why aren’t they improving the players, and ultimately the player trading model, and wage bill.

What we traditionally called “scouts” are now more & more called analysts.

The “if not, why not” line is very relevant to what AFC is(n’t) doing properly.

Good post. Cheers

[aberdeen1970]

You're assuming we're using the analytical tools properly though. 

I agree it should be useful to identify people we might want to take a closer look at. 

But you've got to know what you're looking for in the first place and then you've got to have someone who is willing and able to make a judgment based on the eye test. 

So we are either looking for the wrong attributes, not going to see the shortlisted players live, or watching them and making poor decisions, or unable to persuade the right targets to sign for us. Or a combination of the above. 

Otherwise there's no way the likes of McGarry, Gueye, Morris, Richardson and Gartenmann should be getting through the Swiss cheese and ending up on our books, some of them on long contracts to boot. 

[The Hulk]

@aberdeen1970 that’s correct, hence the “if not, why not” in my post.

The people in charge at Aberdeen have good intentions but they don’t know what they’re doing. If they did, they wouldn’t need an external report to tell them that they need a technical director. Let’s also remember they sacked two analysts in December, and Jordan Miles left because his work wasn’t being taken seriously.

[thurso]

28 minutes ago, RDS said:

I was trying to be polite but think I'm blocked anyway which I'll take as a badge of honour 🎖 

Welcome into the gang but he’s full of shit and doesn’t actually block anyone 

[RDS]

21 minutes ago, donswin1983 said:

@RDS

ignote that, min! I knew what I was trying to say, but articulated it terribly 😂

makes no sense on reading it back. Time to put away the bank holiday wine. 

I got the drift 😁. Have ran out of votes for today or would have up voted. 

[RDS]

Off topic but how many vote emojis do we get in a day and is there a reset on a rolling 24 hours?

[huncunts]

30 minutes ago, Byrne Baby Byrne said:

Shay Logan played 12 games in Mcinnes’ last season and was loaned to Hearts by Mcinnes 😂

 

of course Ramsay would have played. If you were good enough for the first team you got a game. He gave plenty young guys a go, most of them just weren’t good enough. 
 

McKenna, smith, low, Campbell. Shankland given chances too, but just wasn’t as good as Rooney so how many chances do you give him.  Don’t remember any of them being blocked from the 1st team and sent on loan to Peterhead forever. 

Strange how the McInnes never gave the youth a chance myth has continued when he gave far more youths a chance than any manager since. 

On top of what you said - Storie, Anderson, Ross, McLennan, Wright, Ferguson, plus all the 2 minute token gestures. Murray, McManus, Ngwenya, Nuttall etc. But Ramsay who he tipped for big things when he got him to sign a contract would never have played because McInnes hates the yoof.

[fine-n-dandy]

19 minutes ago, RDS said:

Off topic but how many vote emojis do we get in a day and is there a reset on a rolling 24 hours?

Data analysis suggests it as the best system but not sure the moderators are using the system correctly 

[fine-n-dandy]

19 minutes ago, huncunts said:

Strange how the McInnes never gave the youth a chance myth has continued when he gave far more youths a chance than any manager since. 

On top of what you said - Storie, Anderson, Ross, McLennan, Wright, Ferguson, plus all the 2 minute token gestures. Murray, McManus, Ngwenya, Nuttall etc. But Ramsay who he tipped for big things when he got him to sign a contract would never have played because McInnes hates the yoof.

Mcinnes had 8 fkn years to boost his ‘giving youth a chance’ figures

Every manager since has had 1 year at best 🤣

 

Ffs min.

or do you expect each manager since to have the same number of ‘blooded’ youths as Mcinnes had in 8 years in 1 year? Or even all their combined years that still aren’t close to his 8 years?

The list you compiled for his 8+ years also reeks of desperation to boost his ‘stats’ without considering actual circumstances around their ‘chances’

 

Forgive me if I am wrong & he gave that hugely impressive list ‘a chance’ in one single season or even all the managers since ‘combined’ 🤣
 

We also have to consider the actual quality/amount of viable young players coming through 

[RedRevolution]

1 hour ago, Proud Dandy said:

Exactly. If it’s readily available and easily useable for all, then any sporting arbitrage will cease to exist. 

The real difficulty is combining all that with a proper structure and good people running the club, which we (Cormack) has fucked up on.

A bit of balance would also be nice, signing a dozen unknown players from across the globe clearly has a lot higher risk and seems a crazy way to operate. 

Appointing a competent manager that knows what he’s doing would be a good start. 

 

It’s a research tool - you use it to select a group of players that match your profile and that would include budget as an input . Yes others will be using it too in order to compete with you in sourcing the right players.  You’re still better off using it because it improves your search capability - without it you don’t have the same breadth or depth of search . Once you’ve got a defined set of targets it optimises your expenditure on scouting and other due diligence . Then you’ve got to sell your club to the target . Nothings perfect but it’s more scientific and more efficient than pre data days. It’s fair to say the club has done a good job of selling itself in recent years - some great loan signings and some very good permanent signings - duk and bojan being great examples .

[BrisDon]

To borrow from a former late manager, data is like miniskirts. You still need someone in a senior role to determine if the player’s personality is right for the club and the squad. 
 

[fine-n-dandy]

1 minute ago, BrisDon said:

To borrow from a former late manager, data is like miniskirts. You still need someone in a senior role to determine if the player’s personality is right for the club and the squad. 
 

Are miniskirts comfortable?

[Max_AFC]

11 minutes ago, RedRevolution said:

It’s a research tool - you use it to select a group of players that match your profile and that would include budget as an input . Yes others will be using it too in order to compete with you in sourcing the right players.  You’re still better off using it because it improves your search capability - without it you don’t have the same breadth or depth of search . Once you’ve got a defined set of targets it optimises your expenditure on scouting and other due diligence . Then you’ve got to sell your club to the target . Nothings perfect but it’s more scientific and more efficient than pre data days. It’s fair to say the club has done a good job of selling itself in recent years - some great loan signings and some very good permanent signings - duk and bojan being great examples .

Out of interest at what point in the process do the management team / manager get involved once the target(s) are optimised? Will the manager still personally scout performances? 

[vinny de salvo]

Wonder if Dave’s ever thought of attempting a new prawcess that sees us go easier on WyScout and all in to being his fellow natives at Chelski primary feeder club.

[slippers]

18 minutes ago, RedRevolution said:

It’s a research tool - you use it to select a group of players that match your profile and that would include budget as an input . Yes others will be using it too in order to compete with you in sourcing the right players.  You’re still better off using it because it improves your search capability - without it you don’t have the same breadth or depth of search . Once you’ve got a defined set of targets it optimises your expenditure on scouting and other due diligence . Then you’ve got to sell your club to the target . Nothings perfect but it’s more scientific and more efficient than pre data days. It’s fair to say the club has done a good job of selling itself in recent years - some great loan signings and some very good permanent signings - duk and bojan being great examples .

Theirs a lot more to it than people are making out. Every analyst has their own algorithm for searching for players in said position. Like managers some analysts are better than others. Theirs a reason why teams like Brighton and Brentford have came from league 1 to being a decent epl side now. That’s what we are trying to emulate but the execution is off. I actually really like the look of our new head of recruitment. Hoping that’s a step in the right direction along with the extra role being created.