Israel/gaza Thread

[Bobby Connor]

Salmons will always be a far superior politician but Gg has a lifelong passion for something else and loves an argument. I'm not surprised you like him!

[Guest]

There is no doubt that GG believes what he says. How could he not? Why would he not?

 

He's a little weirdo, obviously, but I admire his integrity most of all.

[Bobby Connor]

I'm slowly drawing to the conclusion that he's a megalomaniac who speaks a lot of sense. I wouldn't put him in charge of a country but I'd have him as an advisor.

[E-P-K]

Galloway has now completely lost the plot. Just been watching this:

 

 

 

 

He now speaks with a kind of hybrid accent of Dundee/Someone out of Lawrence of Arabia.

 

He did well in the house of congress and he makes valid points but I would be wary of pinning my colours to the mast of someone who appears on the verge of a breakdown. He's more mental than ever and I reckon he is seeking out the perfect Middle Eastern state to take charge of the radge cunt he is.

 

It's entertaining though. The boy is something else.

 

 

 

PressTV is owned by IRIB, Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting.which will explain his anti Israeli / pro Palestinian views on that show.

[Bobby Connor]

You'd be hard pushed to dispute his overall tone unless you were an Israeli. I just fail to see what his motives are. As the Mancunians would say, he's a "not right". I find myself agreeing with everything he says but I still don't trust the cunt.

[Guest]

I agree that he's not right. I don't think there's anything too sinister about his causes however. He looks for the biggest injustice and sticks his oar in on the side of right. It's got an otherwise unremarkable little man survival this far so he'll keep on doing it.

 

Famously teetotal, GG has NEVER tasted alcohol. Cos his daddy said it was evil.

 

One of my clients says "Never trust a man who doesn't drink because he doesn't trust himself".

 

This wasn't in relation to GG and doesn't apply to him necessarily but I've always been suspicious of the overly self-righteous and puritanical types. As we see with religion - and the establishment - beating the big drum of virtue is a mask to hide their own paedo perversions.

[spamspamspam]

 

 

 

PressTV is owned by IRIB, Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting.which will explain his anti Israeli / pro Palestinian views on that show.

 

 

 

Kids getting blown to fuck

A terrorist state with nuclear bombs and the backing of the US so no one can touch them.

The heads of our government all leading members in the Conservative Friends of Israel

Israel have a protection grid over the country making it near impossible for any of the Hamas rockets to hit the ground, their 'casualties' are soldiers sent in to shoot at children and women. Anything that moves is fair game.

Gaza is pounded by drones, helicopter gunships, fighter jets and missiles, daily.

well over 100 children dead and more than 1000 injured in 2 weeks and they are not even safe in the hospitals they are then taken to for treatment that isnt available because of Israeli blockades.

Nothing more than a land grab and an ethnic cleansing exercise of an entire area.

 

And you reckon GG's views are the way they are just so he can get some soapbox time on an IRIB channel?

 

He's an arsehole, aye but to suggest for a second its all blow for self advertisement? Fuck off.

[davieb]

Salmons is a shit.

 

Much as I believe in Scottish independence and all 5 of us in this family who are old enough to will be voting Yes, Salmond is a professional politician who is only interested in me, me, me.

 

GG stands for his principles, not for himself.

 

That's a huge distinction.

 

Politicians were meant to stand for principle only. Only George does.

 

me me me ... and Galloway mentioned in the same thread, very apt

[davieb]

There is no doubt that GG believes what he says. How could he not? Why would he not?

 

He's a little weirdo, obviously, but I admire his integrity most of all.

 

Aye, he was spot on with victimisation of Neil Lennon by Aberdeen fans as well, went to town on that one. Loves the sound of his own voice that one

[E-P-K]

 

 

 

Kids getting blown to fuck

A terrorist state with nuclear bombs and the backing of the US so no one can touch them.

The heads of our government all leading members in the Conservative Friends of Israel

Israel have a protection grid over the country making it near impossible for any of the Hamas rockets to hit the ground, their 'casualties' are soldiers sent in to shoot at children and women. Anything that moves is fair game.

Gaza is pounded by drones, helicopter gunships, fighter jets and missiles, daily.

well over 100 children dead and more than 1000 injured in 2 weeks and they are not even safe in the hospitals they are then taken to for treatment that isnt available because of Israeli blockades.

Nothing more than a land grab and an ethnic cleansing exercise of an entire area.

 

And you reckon GG's views are the way they are just so he can get some soapbox time on an IRIB channel?

 

He's an arsehole, aye but to suggest for a second its all blow for self advertisement? Fuck off.

 

 

 

If it was on his own youtube channel, then so be it, but it was for an Iranian new channel, they are hardly going to be anything other than anti Israel, pro Palestinian.

 

 

You have bumped your gums enough about BBC and there slant on Scottish independence, so you of all people should be aware that news corporations take a biased view on certain topics.

 

Just like RT report the Ukrainian issues vastly differently from Western media outlets.

[spamspamspam]

 

 

 

If it was on his own youtube channel, then so be it, but it was for an Iranian new channel, they are hardly going to be anything other than anti Israel, pro Palestinian.

 

 

You have bumped your gums enough about BBC and there slant on Scottish independence, so you of all people should be aware that news corporations take a biased view on certain topics.

 

Just like RT report the Ukrainian issues vastly differently from Western media outlets

 

 

He's been asked, and paid most probably, by a channel that knows his views and wants to get its message out to the west. Who better than the man that took on the US Senate and made an arse of them? He's been employed for his views, not using a ugly, horrid situation for his own publicity stunt as you suggest.

 

No wonder fuck all gets done when arseholes are more worried about why someone says something that the actual content of what is said and how much truth is in it.

[E-P-K]

 

 

He's been asked, and paid most probably, by a channel that knows his views and wants to get its message out to the west. Who better than the man that took on the US Senate and made an arse of them? He's been employed for his views, not using a ugly, horrid situation for his own publicity stunt as you suggest.

 

No wonder fuck all gets done when arseholes are more worried about why someone says something that the actual content of what is said and how much truth is in it.

 

 

Who the fuck said it was for a publicity stunt ?

 

 

Fuck knows what has happened to you the last few months, rant after rant with no substance, other than class A's

 

I simply said that due to to his employers being the Iranian broadcasting co, GG or whoever hosted that programme would have the same view, anti Israel / pro Palestinian.

 

 

Just like if you watched Tel Aviv news show today, you will see a very different view, dictated by the news channels political direction, not the host.

[Bluto10]

Jew?

Arab;

Both are no Bette han dog shit

 

Let then squabble

[RUL]

So, Israel goal is to wipe out Hamas and Hamas manifesto includes a line about being happy with only the total destruction of Israel.

 

We've already had evidence that where you allow sectarian divides to continue, Afghanistan/Iraq, after interference, that fuck all comes of it. I don't know what folk want the UK and Yanks to do? The only good will come from one or possible both countries being wiped out so let them get on with it and send us a facebook message with the name of the winners so we can update our maps of the world?

[spamspamspam]

 

 

Who the fuck said it was for a publicity stunt ?

 

 

Fuck knows what has happened to you the last few months, rant after rant with no substance, other than class A's

 

I simply said that due to to his employers being the Iranian broadcasting co, GG or whoever hosted that programme would have the same view, anti Israel / pro Palestinian.

 

 

Just like if you watched Tel Aviv news show today, you will see a very different view, dictated by the news channels political direction, not the host.

 

 

You open with GG's views being explainable due to the TV channel it was on, followed by it wouldnt be half as bad if it was on his own youtube channel - reads like you are saying he's on his soapbox for his own agenda and doesnt actually believe what he's saying or at least what he is saying is secondary to the publicity he'll get from it.

 

You then go on about media bias because of the channel its on - reads that you actually think what is said is bullshit and completely one sided because of the above and he got paid for it.

 

No mention of the actual shite thats going down in Gaza, just a bitch about GG and his motives/the contents of what he said.

 

And I'm the dick high as fuck on class A's? Really?

[E-P-K]

 

 

You open with GG's views being explainable due to the TV channel it was on, followed by it wouldnt be half as bad if it was on his own youtube channel - reads like you are saying he's on his soapbox for his own agenda and doesnt actually believe what he's saying or at least what he is saying is secondary to the publicity he'll get from it.

 

If the comments were on his own youtube channel then you would know that it was his, and only his opinions, but as his pay masters are the Iranians, who historically have been allies of Hamas, with $20M donations per month, then the rhetoric will be pro Palestinian / anti Israeli regardless of who the show host is.

 

You then go on about media bias because of the channel its on - reads that you actually think what is said is bullshit and completely one sided because of the above and he got paid for it.

 

The vast majority of media is biased, with one political view one way or another, just watch SKY news, CNN. Al Jazeera, The Israeli national news comp, or the IDF news channel and the reporting on the same incident will be very very different.

 

Just look at this afternoon, rocket landed on a hospital and near by park, killing 10 kids, Israel are being blamed by Hamas, yet Israel are saying it was a mis-fired Hamas rocket that did the damage, propaganda war to the extreme, its unlikley that we will ever know for sure, as what every media outlet you watch, fills our heads with pishe of the political and propaganda view point they promote.

 

No mention of the actual shite thats going down in Gaza, just a bitch about GG and his motives/the contents of what he said.

 

The actual shit going down in Gaza the last 21 days, is horrific, massacres, destruction, horror beyond belief, hatred borne by death, which is generations deep. No one will win, they will stop next week either by a brokered cease fire, or when the amount of Israeli deaths are too high for the Israeli public to accept. (its already circa 40 more than the last war between them), Israel will say they have achieved there objectives, Hamas will say Israel has surrendered and take hollow victory, and the status quo will return, for another few years before the same tit for tat attacks, and counter attacks begin.

 

And I'm the dick high as fuck on class A's? Really?

 

[spamspamspam]

 

If the comments were on his own youtube channel then you would know that it was his, and only his opinions, but as his pay masters are the Iranians, who historically have been allies of Hamas, with $20M donations per month, then the rhetoric will be pro Palestinian / anti Israeli regardless of who the show host is.

 

What a crock

 

GG may be a lot of things but no one has ever proven he's a sell out or mouth for sale through all his time chumming up to middle east dictators. I'm sure you know too well though he's no ones mouthpiece bar his own no matter who pays him to voice his opinion.

 

If it was on his youtube the only difference would be to his bank balance.

[The Hulk]

I think what EPK is saying (correct me if I'm wrong min), is that a media outlet can edit anything to suit their agenda. It's like the mantra "don't believe everything you read". Things taken out of context, editorial control. Pretty clear to me.

 

There's no doubting that Galloway is a strong advocate for Palestine, that he believes in his convictions and has raised massive awareness. At any time in the history of George Galloway however, has he been responsible for any good to come of any of these causes? His views "making sense" (I see significant amount of ignorance in alot of what he says) are one thing, the fact he's a din-raiser is another, and it's as if his reputation for being the latter means that his views are not articulated in a way that ever tends to hold any sway at any reasonable decision-making level.

[Bobby Connor]

Jew?

Arab;

Both are no Bette han dog shit

Let then squabble

That was kinda my opinion until very recently I started looking into it beyond what is reported on the BBC who prefer to show bombs going off in the distance rather than the reality. They depict it as a war, it isn't. It's the equivalent of holding a child in a locked room and popping in on occasion to punch them in the face repeatedly. It's sick as fuck and I'm a bit ashamed that I never took much notice of it until now.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

would we have done that to Belfast??

 

Tbh I would have expected so, if it had been opportune!

 

We British were happy to use artillery in the urban center of Dublin in 1916 (clearing the Collins era IRA out of the GPO building), why not in Belfast a few decades later?

 

The Government even deployed ww1-era tanks on the streets of Glasgow, during the red clydeside era.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

I'm a bit ashamed that I never took much notice of it until now.

 

My view of it has changed over the years, this way and that. Both are blameable and both have their extremists.

 

Israel gets a raw deal from the western media imo. They never cover the many rocket attacks etc which eventually provokes an Israeli response - its only when the tanks roll that coverage begins (suggesting that Israel is the aggressor).

 

The arabs strategy involves deliberately putting civilians at direct risk from israeli action, to generate bad international coverage for israel. I find that pretty cynical, that they don't seem to value the lives of even their own people.

 

I understand the arab anger at the existence if Israel, but why are they not happy to live under an Israeli government, but they were happy to live under a British mandate?

 

Why I think the Palestinians ultimately have the moral high-ground regarding the fundamental cause of the conflict, ironically its better for everyone there that Israel exists, in terms of their quality of life and freedoms. If the muslims were in charge, it would just be either:

 

(i) yet another muslim shit-hole, deeply repressive and bigoted for anyone who is not a heterosexual male muslim; OR

(ii) a semi-functioning, quasi-decent place, but with lots of suspicion and corruption, controlled by a military-backed secular strongman

 

Israel is surely better for everyone, than either of these possibilities.

 

I also think the muslims and the western media are hypocrites, to call foul about israel but then ignore muslims doing the same things they complain of, elsewhere. For example, the current genocide of christians in iraq, by militant muslims there:

 

 

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/07/its-over-genocide-has-been-accomplished.html

 

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/07/nun-sign-of-genocide.html

 

Look at the "marked buildings" pics in the 2nd link, they mark the buildings of christians the same way the nazis marked the buildings of jews.

 

This article from an italian newspaper is enlightening as to why similar muslim crimes do not get much coverage; snippet:

 

"Europe is afraid, and this is the second reason for the indifference I mentioned before. It fears Arab Islam, its power of economic blackmail linked not only to oil anymore, but now also to an extraordinary financial liquidity. At the same time, and above all, it fears the ruthless terrorism, the so many guerrillas that claim to be inspired by Islam, their cruel barbarity, as well as the movements of revolt that periodically deeply stir the masses of that world, always permeated by a sensibility that is extremely easy to light up and to break loose in violent xenophobia.

 

But not only that. Islam scares us also because its very presence -- as also that of other large non-benevolent entities that fill the world today, such as China -- indirectly forces us to face up to a great ongoing change in our culture, and therefore in our civilization: the psychological impossibility of having an "enemy", of withstanding a situation of conflict that cannot be settled. An impossibility that, together with the rejection/removal of death -- death that the decline of religion renders now impossible to accept and, therefore, in some way to exorcise -- is on its turn bringing forth in the West a gigantic historic turning point: the virtual impossibility for us to think about and make war. At least that war that is not fought by impersonal and sophisticated machines, but true war, war in which one dies."

 

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/07/a-brilliant-op-ed-these-are-but-signs.html

 

EDIT - the above reasoning might explain some of the quality of coverage of israel-palestine as well

[Bobby Connor]

CS, there are 1.8million people crammed into an area the size of the Black Isle. How could you accuse them of using children as shields? There is nowhere for anyone to hide. They can't even run to the sea because they would be shot by patrol boats. It's a scandal that I am amazed I've been kept in the dark of.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

How could you accuse them of using children as shields?

 

They dont need to operate in / or fire mortars and rockets from civilian residential areas. Rockets have been twice been found recently, stored in vacant schools (schools are obviously within residential areas). They do this knowing full well that it will cause fighting in / shelling of these areas, and so raising the risk of civilian deaths.

 

http://www.thewire.com/global/2014/07/hamas-rockets-found-in-second-united-nations-school/374874/

 

And they are open about their policy:

 

 

 

Hamas has made no secret of advocating the use of civilians as human shields to try to face down Israeli aggression

 

 

 

“Our neighbours came in to form a human shield,” Mr Kaware said, with some even going up on to the roof to try to prevent a bombing.

Seven people died in the attack.

 

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-hamas-civilians-human-shields/18534

 

The vaguely worded quote of course means happily expending civilian lives, as a propaganda weapon vs israel.

 

Whereas a tank may not fire if it sees civilians in an area, jet pilots dropping guided bombs from 10,000s feet up, or artillerymen 10s of miles away, etc cant easily see if civilians are present.

 

Hammas know full well what they are doing, especially given the number of times of tragic consequences. And, of course, the tragic consequences help keep the hatred of the jews "on the boil" and so galvanising determination on the palestinian side, and so sustaining the conflict.

 

Look at this list of 2014 known, recorded missiles fired at Israeli, how many of these were reported before the recent blow up?

 

These are indiscriminate rocket and mortar attacks, which could land anywhere - a row of shops, a block of flats, a schoolyard etc.

 

(I have lumped mortars and rockets together as "bombs" in the list).

 

Jan: 9 bombs

Feb: 7 bombs

mar: 65 bombs

April: 24 bombs

May: 7 bombs

June: 54 bombs

July: 2,503 bombs (estimated so far)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014#

 

Of course these attacks are puny compared to israel's military might, but the real effect is not destruction but rather the constant fear and stress the civilians in the affected areas live with - and the general effect on their quality of life (who wants to go for a nice walk, if a mortar bomb might suddenly land out of nowhere?)

[Ke1t]

 

They dont need to operate in / or fire mortars and rockets from civilian residential areas. Rockets have been twice been found recently, stored in vacant schools (schools are obviously within residential areas). They do this knowing full well that it will cause fighting in / shelling of these areas, and so raising the risk of civilian deaths.

 

http://www.thewire.com/global/2014/07/hamas-rockets-found-in-second-united-nations-school/374874/

 

And they are open about their policy:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-hamas-civilians-human-shields/18534

 

The vaguely worded quote of course means happily expending civilian lives, as a propaganda weapon vs israel.

 

Whereas a tank may not fire if it sees civilians in an area, jet pilots dropping guided bombs from 10,000s feet up, or artillerymen 10s of miles away, etc cant easily see if civilians are present.

 

Hammas know full well what they are doing, especially given the number of times of tragic consequences. And, of course, the tragic consequences help keep the hatred of the jews "on the boil" and so galvanising determination on the palestinian side, and so sustaining the conflict.

 

Look at this list of 2014 known, recorded missiles fired at Israeli, how many of these were reported before the recent blow up?

 

These are indiscriminate rocket and mortar attacks, which could land anywhere - a row of shops, a block of flats, a schoolyard etc.

 

(I have lumped mortars and rockets together as "bombs" in the list).

 

Jan: 9 bombs

Feb: 7 bombs

mar: 65 bombs

April: 24 bombs

May: 7 bombs

June: 54 bombs

July: 2,503 bombs (estimated so far)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014#

 

Of course these attacks are puny compared to israel's military might, but the real effect is not destruction but rather the constant fear and stress the civilians in the affected areas live with - and the general effect on their quality of life (who wants to go for a nice walk, if a mortar bomb might suddenly land out of nowhere?)

 

 

Gaza is the modern day equivalent of the Warsaw Ghetto.

 

You may as well take issue at the Warsaw Uprising as the attacks that come from the Gaza Strip.

 

When people are kept in concentration camps the best course of action is to open the gates and allow them to escape, not to send tanks in when some of the armed concentration camp inmates send a couple of rockets the way of their captors.

 

Israel has created this situation, Israel has the means by which to alleviate the suffering of the inmates, Israel refuses to do so, but instead continues to annex land, drop bombs on the camp, and act like they're above international law and sanction.

 

The Palestinian people are the victims here, there's no counter-argument.

[Guest]

You can argue all you like about who's firing rockets, why and how.

 

The simple truth is that the state of Israel should not exist.

 

It was created by displacing people from their own land.

 

Until this gross injustice is rectified, there is zero prospect of peace.

[daytripping]

I read the Jerusalem Posts take on things today, so fucking one sided and brainwashing the people, I just felt despair at what they wrote, these people are cunts. I hope some rogue muslim state gets a nuke and drops it on them, they're killing kids and families at will, the rest of the World just watching. They don't give a fuck.

 

The Washington post was nearly as bad.

[daytripping]

The Sunnis, Shiites, Isis, just them all need to wake up and seen who the real enemy are, Bin Laden was on the right track, so was Hitler in some aspects.

 

If this was happening anywhere else in the World there would be uproar.

[Ke1t]

The Sunnis, Shiites, Isis, just them all need to wake up and seen who the real enemy are, Bin Laden was on the right track, so was Hitler in some aspects.

 

If this was happening anywhere else in the World there would be uproar.

 

[spamspamspam]

[BrianFaePerth]

The whole thing sickens me.

 

Wee innocent bairns dying in the name of religion.