Scottish Independence Referendum 2

[The Gee Man]

2 minutes ago, For Fecks Sake said:

He was promoted as he was the only one of the 3 who Sturgeon could control.

Ash Regan might just defect back, that would embarrass Salmon 

[BrisDon]

5 minutes ago, For Fecks Sake said:

He was promoted as he was the only one of the 3 who Sturgeon could control.

I’m talking about his whole career. Not just his elevation to FM. Guy is a certified lightweight. 

[RAZOR]

8 minutes ago, The Gee Man said:

Ash Regan might just defect back, that would embarrass Salmon 

She probably regrets defecting in the first place as she'd probably be front runner now. A Oil and Gas defender 😍

Jenny Gilruth would be my bet.

[For Fecks Sake]

6 minutes ago, BrisDon said:

I’m talking about his whole career. Not just his elevation to FM. Guy is a certified lightweight. 

Kate Forbes predicted this situation during the FM race - "When you were a transport minister the trains were never on time. When you were justice minister the police were strained to breaking point. And now as health minister, we’ve got record high waiting times. What makes you think you can do a better job as first minister?"

[Schapenneuker]

Yousaf has been caught in the perfect storm of Sturgeon's poisoned legacy, Tory cunts at Westminster desperate to destroy devolution, and the fact that he's a useless, hopeless bawbag. 

It defies imagination the fuck up the SNP have made of things. 

And there'll be tens of thousands of people like me come the GE who would normally vote SNP but can't find a reason to do it now, but who will never, ever vote for a Unionist party or these nutcase Greens. 

 

[Schapenneuker]

26 minutes ago, The Gee Man said:

The media will just spin the wee free with Kate! 

This is going to be one of the problems for the SNP....Forbes would seem to be the logical choice for leader, but she comes with a certain amount of baggage. 

The Unionist press in Scotland with their daily anti-SNP pish....'Arbroath primary school forgets to order more green pencils - blame the SNP'.....could have a field day with her if they want to. 

 

[RAZOR]

12 minutes ago, Schapenneuker said:

Yousaf has been caught in the perfect storm of Sturgeon's poisoned legacy, Tory cunts at Westminster desperate to destroy devolution, and the fact that he's a useless, hopeless bawbag. 

It defies imagination the fuck up the SNP have made of things. 

And there'll be tens of thousands of people like me come the GE who would normally vote SNP but can't find a reason to do it now, but who will never, ever vote for a Unionist party or these nutcase Greens. 

 

Well summed up min 👍

Vote Alba 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[For Fecks Sake]

14 minutes ago, RAZOR said:

Well summed up min 👍

Vote Alba 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

Could this be the start of Alba getting traction with the traditional SNP voter and turning that into seats @ Holyrood?

Would be great to see Salmond back in there.

[manboobs109]

25 minutes ago, Schapenneuker said:

Yousaf has been caught in the perfect storm of Sturgeon's poisoned legacy, Tory cunts at Westminster desperate to destroy devolution, and the fact that he's a useless, hopeless bawbag. 

It defies imagination the fuck up the SNP have made of things. 

And there'll be tens of thousands of people like me come the GE who would normally vote SNP but can't find a reason to do it now, but who will never, ever vote for a Unionist party or these nutcase Greens. 

 

 

21 minutes ago, Schapenneuker said:

This is going to be one of the problems for the SNP....Forbes would seem to be the logical choice for leader, but she comes with a certain amount of baggage. 

The Unionist press in Scotland with their daily anti-SNP pish....'Arbroath primary school forgets to order more green pencils - blame the SNP'.....could have a field day with her if they want to. 

 

It's mad you can acknowledge the SNP are a shambles yet slag off the "unionist press" for saying the same thing.

[RAZOR]

11 minutes ago, For Fecks Sake said:

Could this be the start of Alba getting traction with the traditional SNP voter and turning that into seats @ Holyrood?

Would be great to see Salmond back in there.

A few of them should sneak in on the list I'd think.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

18 minutes ago, For Fecks Sake said:

Could this be the start of Alba getting traction with the traditional SNP voter and turning that into seats @ Holyrood?

Would be great to see Salmond back in there.

I dont ever see a return for Salmond tbh.

He is one of the most talented politicians to ever set foot in the place.  And on genuine merit, not just for the fact that the typical MSP is of civil servant / trade unionist / LGBT activist background.

But he is a very much tarnished figure now.  His reputation in tatters, thanks to "indefensible conduct" of his own admission.

He has also become morbidly obese and, while many MSPs have grown fat on subsidised meals, his gross appearance now matches his gross reputation.

Add in the association with Russian media channels and he is a toxic figure for too many people now.

 

[Clydeside_Sheep]

44 minutes ago, Schapenneuker said:

This is going to be one of the problems for the SNP....Forbes would seem to be the logical choice for leader, but she comes with a certain amount of baggage. 

The problem isnt with her, the baggage belongs to the likes of Patrick Harvie and too many nationalists who buy into the LGBT group-think which defined Sturgeons SNP (and carried on with Humza, given he had nothing of his own to replace it with).

Salmond's SNP was powerful and (for Unionists) dangerous because it was a big tent movement and capable of persuasion.

Big tent = inclusive, ie a home for all.  But, for the likes of Harvie and Sturgeon, "inclusive" means "inclusive only of those who agree with me 100%".  Current Scots nationalism is a narrow minded sect, sharply intolerant of difference, to the extent that even it hinders them appointing an effective leader.

Forbes would probably be good for the SNP and for Scotland, my only complaint with her is that she must have little principle if she was happy to be a Sturgeon Minister against the backdrop of her professed values.  You saw what they really thought of her, when it came to succession.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

56 minutes ago, Schapenneuker said:

Yousaf has been caught in the perfect storm of Sturgeon's poisoned legacy, Tory cunts at Westminster desperate to destroy devolution, and the fact that he's a useless, hopeless bawbag. 

I agree except with the tories bit, they have nowt to do with the Holyrood shambles.

Their only intervention - to block the GRR - was just, timely and well received by the Scots public.

[sigh]

8 minutes ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

I dont ever see a return for Salmond tbh.

He is one of the most talented politicians to ever set foot in the place.  And on genuine merit, not just for the fact that the typical MSP is of civil servant / trade unionist / LGBT activist background.

But he is a very much tarnished figure now.  His reputation in tatters, thanks to "indefensible conduct" of his own admission.

He has also become morbidly obese and, while many MSPs have grown fat on subsidised meals, his gross appearance now matches his gross reputation.

Add in the association with Russian media channels and he is a toxic figure for too many people now.

 

Apart from all of that, I would still vote for him.

It has tp be a good thing that SNP now needs a reset, and that the Greens are gone - lets get on to a Scottish election, and a Westminster election, all in one year - labour to triumph in both? Tories humiliated in both. SNP reset for a few years and then merge with Alba.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

1 hour ago, RAZOR said:

Jenny Gilruth would be my bet.

She fits the SNP / Green bill alright:

- Sturgeon loyalist

-LGBT

- No experience outside the Statist bubble. 

-Performed poorly in her previous ministerial roles

[For Fecks Sake]

8 minutes ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

She fits the SNP / Green bill alright:

- Sturgeon loyalist

-LGBT

- No experience outside the Statist bubble. 

-Performed poorly in her previous ministerial roles

Worth a poke though, also married to Kezia Dugdale so a chance of a threesome!

[Clydeside_Sheep]

4 minutes ago, sigh said:

Apart from all of that, I would still vote for him.

It has tp be a good thing that SNP now needs a reset, and that the Greens are gone - lets get on to a Scottish election, and a Westminster election, all in one year - labour to triumph in both? Tories humiliated in both. SNP reset for a few years and then merge with Alba.

The Greens may yet hang around, like the bad smell Patrick Harvies appearance conjures in your mind.

There are no dominant personalities in the remaining SNP bloc and no big movement for change, so its likely they will (again) go for "more of the same" and try to appoint someone who is fundamentally Humza Mk 2 - ie Gilruth or MacAllan - especially as this may again buy the support of the Greens.

The vote of no confidence in government will I think still go ahead and could result in an holyrood election.

As a unionist, I obviously hope for an election - the SNP are in disarray, cant afford campaigns for two elections in such a short time, the greens would likely suffer (as SNP voters withhold the 2nd votes they rely on) and the worst outcome is only the status quo.

Holyrood has proved a huge waste of money imo, but at least some soap opera drama like this is entertaining.

 

[Clydeside_Sheep]

Just now, For Fecks Sake said:

Worth a poke though, also married to Kezia Dugdale so a chance of a threesome!

Yes, I do find Gilruth strangely attractive.

[Ten Caat]

On 4/26/2024 at 9:14 AM, For Fecks Sake said:

As much as I dislike Nicola Sturgeon, I don't think she knew anything, or played any part, in any fraud.

I actually like her but find it difficult to believe she didn't know something, given that her husband is the alleged perpetrator (I accept there may be others yet to be uncovered by the investigation) of said fraud. Coupled with the extreme haste she resigned her position which on the face of it came right out of the blue last year.

 

[milne_afc]

2 minutes ago, Ten Caat said:

given that her husband is the alleged perpetrator

That’s surely a questionable relationship. I’d be surprised if there’s a marital bed.

[Redforever86]

44 minutes ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

 

The vote of no confidence in government will I think still go ahead and could result in an holyrood election.

 

 

That’s not how it works fuck nugget how do you think we got Rishi Sunak and Boris…

[For Fecks Sake]

[BrisDon]

14 minutes ago, milne_afc said:

That’s surely a questionable relationship. I’d be surprised if there’s a marital bed.

I’m fairly certain Sturgeon is a closeted F2M (or possibly even the other way round?) hence her fervour for trans rights. 
 

 

[Clydeside_Sheep]

15 minutes ago, Redforever86 said:

That’s not how it works fuck nugget how do you think we got Rishi Sunak and Boris…

If they cant appoint a new FM - with Holyroods blessing - in 28 days there will be an holyrood election.

Being able to do this isnt certain, given the SNP dont have a majority.

We got Sunak and Boris because the Torys had a comfy Westminster majority and so could just appoint who they wanted.

[Ten Caat]

58 minutes ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

She fits the SNP / Green bill alright:

- Sturgeon loyalist

-LGBT

- No experience outside the Statist bubble. 

-Performed poorly in her previous ministerial roles

She's actually my MSP, bizarrely I'm considered part of the Glenrothes constituency for Holyrood but NE Fife for Westminster. Gilruth is actually an excellent constituency MSP but as you say, not particularly impressive as portfolio holding minister. 

Unfortunately for the SNP, other than Swinney, who has in the past said he holds no ambitions to be leader again (his wife has fairly severe MS of one of the progressive types), there's no candidate who doesn't have either personal or ideological "flaws". For the good of the party, he might be able to be persuaded to take on the role for a short period of time. My own choice would be Forbes but her personal views tend to be both socially and economically conservative, in contrast to the majority of her colleagues and probably the wider SNP membership in general.

I actually think it might be for the best if they go for an early Holyrood election and end up losing to Labour. A spell of reflection and as the main opposition party might manage to unite them and maybe a genuine outstanding candidate will be found in that time

[Clydeside_Sheep]

Fair play to Humza, his resignation speech wasnt bad.  He spoke warmly of Scotland, of his family and his pride at being FM.  I was fairly impressed by him there.

I didnt like the pandering to the nasty greens.  I lost interest when we got into the usual "we lifted X gajillion kids out of poverty" etc.

And only weeks ago, he decried the UK as "institutionally racist" yet now he lauded it as a multi-cultural success, rhyming off all the ethnic minorities in powerful political positions.  This just shows what two-faced shite ID-politics is, it can be spun either way at the drop of a hat.

 

[Schapenneuker]

1 hour ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

I agree except with the tories bit, they have nowt to do with the Holyrood shambles.

Their only intervention - to block the GRR - was just, timely and well received by the Scots public.

It's statements like that, that make me believe that you don't really understand what devolution is. 

It's an absolute fact that the SG has control of around 25% of Scotland's economic levers, leaving of copurse around 75% in the hands of Westminster. 

A great irony of the devolved settlements, is that for the Scottish government to succeed, we need whoever is in power at Westminster to be doing well. When you have the absolute clusterfuck that we have at Westminster, the SG has no chance at all of succeeding.........and that's before we even get into the madness of the SG taking on Westminster in the kind of culture war issues that right-wingers love. 

It's pretty remarkable how many Scots do not understand how limited the powers of the SG government are. I have to put that down to strong personalities like Salmond and Sturgeon being so politically omnipresent over the last 17 years or so. 

Power devolved, is absolutely, 100%, power retained.

 

[WesthillWanderersFC]

This is the best thing that could’ve happened to the SNP, short, medium & long-term.

And folk will soon learn Starmer is a Tory with a red rosette.

Hopefully that abhorrent wanker Ross self combusts today too.

 

[The Boofon]

1 hour ago, Clydeside_Sheep said:

I dont ever see a return for Salmond tbh.

He is one of the most talented politicians to ever set foot in the place.  And on genuine merit, not just for the fact that the typical MSP is of civil servant / trade unionist / LGBT activist background.

 

 

Only accurate thing I think you've ever said.

 

A colossus of a politician. Would have been Prime Minister if he'd chosen a different party.

[Clydeside_Sheep]

3 minutes ago, Ten Caat said:

She's actually my MSP, bizarrely I'm considered part of the Glenrothes constituency for Holyrood but NE Fife for Westminster. Gilruth is actually an excellent constituency MSP but as you say, not particularly impressive as portfolio holding minister. 

Unfortunately for the SNP, other than Swinney, who has in the past said he holds no ambitions to be leader again (his wife has fairly severe MS of one of the progressive types), there's no candidate who doesn't have either personal or ideological "flaws". For the good of the party, he might be able to be persuaded to take on the role for a short period of time. My own choice would be Forbes but her personal views tend to be both socially and economically conservative, in contrast to the majority of her colleagues and probably the wider SNP membership in general.

I actually think it might be for the best if they go for an early Holyrood election and end up losing to Labour. A spell of reflection and as the main opposition party might manage to unite them and maybe a genuine outstanding candidate will be found in that time

I agree, especially about going for an election and perhaps regrouping out of power.  Post salmond, the SNP have wasted 10 years in power.  Maybe spending time coming up with an economic case for independence would be worthwhile, rather than the daily farce of fire-fighting messes of their own making.

However, financially I dont think the party would relish two election campaigns in one year.  Its a long time since they got any significant donations  and that will likely continue as long as operation branchform goes on.

If I was SNP, I would also choose Forbes - to be honest, I think many SNP voters and politicians think what they are told to think, and so I dont think her values would be quite so alien.  I do think Scotland is a much more socially conservative place than is often recognised and on many issues Forbes would chime with the wider population.  Most people were willing to accept gay marriage, (in a society where marriage had already been long diminished via divorce, cohabiting etc), but the trans nonsense is what did for Sturgeon.

Forbes is the obvious candidate, yet would she or the party want her to take charge just as the party is nose diving and is expecting a poor election(s)? It would be like throwing good money after bad.

Gilruth / Macallan - more of the same failing direction, with a leader appointed purely because they are Sturgeon loyalists, not because they bring anything to the table. Humza Mk2 essentially.

Swinney - more of the same failing direction, except with someone who is older, tired and already a failed SNP leader.  Plus given the murk and corruption of the Sturgeon years, would think he would want to get the hell out of dodge.  Perhaps a short term option.

Neil Gray - essentially a male version of Gilruth / Macallan, except he is Humza's creation, whereas the women are Sturgeon's and the Sturgeonites still rule the SNP roost.

An election is what is best for Scotland, regardless of party politics.  I think we would end up with a labour-lib dem coalition.