New Stadium Approved

[Bamber]

 

What you said there is out of the clubs control unfortunately. The supporters bar will be positioned so you have to leave the bar then enter through the turnstiles to see the game. There won't be access to it at half time etc. To have direct entry from the bar to the ground there would need to be legislation changes. As for walking right round the stadium there's no way they'll want people walking round from one end to the other along rows of seats. The concourses don't link up from stand to stand.

 

 

Direct Entry - maybe but what we could be talking here is direct exit - two different things have a turnstile entry to the bar - also controls entry so a good thing then a turnstyle entry to the concourse so removing the direct entry from the stands

 

How do you know there wont be a linked concourse - one thing that I thought was good at tynecastle when we went for the St J semi-final was how one concourse served multiple stands - its not impossible

 

What we are talking here is clever thinking - be clever

[Donnet]

 

 

Direct Entry - maybe but what we could be talking here is direct exit - two different things have a turnstile entry to the bar - also controls entry so a good thing then a turnstyle entry to the concourse so removing the direct entry from the stands

 

How do you know there wont be a linked concourse - one thing that I thought was good at tynecastle when we went for the St J semi-final was how one concourse served multiple stands - its not impossible

 

What we are talking here is clever thinking - be clever

 

Because the detailed drawings of the plans are all on the council website.

 

Be clever.

[NEM]

I'm beginning to wonder if the people who keep trying to push this nonsense are actually football fans.

 

It's not a new swimming pool or a Tim Horton's being built, where locals go along to try it out then gradually get less interested. It's a football club that the fans have supported for years. Any "novelty" will have worn off years ago, but it stays with you for life.

 

When did the novelty wear off at Pittodrie? After the RDS was built? After we fell so far behind the Old Firm we began every season aiming for third? When reaching the top six was seen as a success? When prices rose way beyond inflation?

 

We still go. We might go less because we've got other commitments or have moved to the other end of the country, but that's different than being put off by an additional 20 minutes to get to a game. The older fans who go less are always replaced by new younger fans, that's shown by our average rarely changing much.

 

For every fan that would usually be a regular at Pittodrie but decides to skip a game at Kingsford because it's out of town, there will likely be another one who is more likely to go because he/she prefers the stadium to the old one.

 

What's actually more realistic is fans get into the routine of going to Kingsford, and eventually get used to it and the additional travel time.

 

 

I'm at least as much a football "fan" as a journo with a free pass

 

Aye like when we were averaging 8 or 9k under Craig Brown you mean?

 

I think whats more realistic is some fans instead of spending an hour or 2 waiting on, and sat on a bus will decide "nah fuck it I'll watch it at home/listen to the game on the radio" instead

 

Once the novelty of a new ground has worn off like

[Panda]

 

 

I'm at least as much a football "fan" as a journo with a free pass

 

 

I pay in to all the Aberdeen games and quite often travel up from Glasgow for them, so your free pass comment doesn't really work.

 

MAye like when we were averaging 8 or 9k under Craig Brown you mean?

You've just proved my point, that crowds at Aberdeen games would appear to have very little to do with the location.

 

 

I think whats more realistic is some fans instead of spending an hour or 2 waiting on, and sat on a bus will decide "nah fuck it I'll watch it at home/listen to the game on the radio" instead

 

Once the novelty of a new ground has worn off like

Likewise folk could say the same this Saturday. The ticket sales aren't particularly high for a game that isn't at Kingsford. If it was at Kingsford, no doubt you, Betty and Abz Red would all be racing on to tell us it's because of the location.

[dave_min]

Likewise folk could say the same this Saturday. The ticket sales aren't particularly high for a game that isn't at Kingsford. If it was at Kingsford, no doubt you, Betty and Abz Red would all be racing on to tell us it's because of the location.

 

They'd be even higher if the game wasn't on Sunday.

[King Street Loon]

I see the WANKS have set up a new company.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC587516

[The Boofon]

I see the WANKS have set up a new company.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC587516

Dodgy as fuck.

[robbojunior]

 

Because the detailed drawings of the plans are all on the council website.

 

Be clever.

 

Planning drawings.

 

Not construction drawings.

 

Be clever.

[something_or_other]

 

 

...

 

I don't see how it would be physically possible in terms of crowd segregation to be able to walk around in view of the pitch. I think the best solution would be supporters bars at say three stands used for home fans. More than anything I hope there is adequate facilities for drinking, but also families to spend time before the match, a selection restaurants/food court that is family friendly. And push people to get there early with events from noon onwards. Let the kids meet the players, or kick a few balls on a training pitch, meal, run around in a play area, game, then home etc.

 

Most of all I hope we take advantage of technology in this new build. In my opinion with the likes of Apple Pay, contactless payments, electronic season tickets etc it should be a cashless stadium. Purchases from he bars, restaurants, club shop etc should slowly add to your membership points etc.

 

We need to implement deals with who ever is running the shuttle buses, make things efficient so we can reduce queues.

 

I haven't looked at the plans and I'm sure details like this will be changed, but more than anything I think we must have adequate areas for fans to be dropped off by friends, relatives, taxis, autonomous cars etc. Aberdeen is a city that heavily uses cars (due to prosperity, working out with the city on industrial estates etc). I think car use is going to be bigger than we have allocated for. But I think with technology we can make it a good experience. In 15 years I want to fly in on my drone, get dropped off and it can fuck off for the match.

 

What I do find funny is those who are against it because it won't be perfect, with regards to transport there isn't a perfect stadium in the world and I don't think surpassing Pittodrie will be hard.

 

This is the biggest opportunity we have had as club for decades, I doubt it will be perfect but I hope we push the boat out, take a few risks and end up with what is a special experience and home in Scottish football.

 

...there was an undertone to my comments that you've just reinforced. it doesn't have to be cheap vs expensive - it has to be smart vs (some of the posters on here . Yup technologly will change in the next 5 years (autonomous cars maybe a push even in 15 but the holy grail of micropayments becoming a reality due to the mainstreaming of blockchain technologies is defo on the table) so you can look at those and go "ok we're not going to do it now - but what can we do to prepare so we are ready"... that is smart! I find it ridiculous in the current (ok broader uk rather than aberdeen) culture of pop-ups you can't make it fun... as someone else mentioned here...murrayfield have bands playing... food places that turn up on the day... I'm sure there could even be a TV racing section and bookies for those that miss the racing... it's all up for grabs!

 

Segregation - I don't mean 360... more 270... that should be doable. And if people have paid to be in and decide to go runaround... i'm pretty sure that the police use CCTV to look at issues rather than seat numbers... might be better anyway. after 10 mins you can sit anywhere so that crowds go together...

 

Cars are the issue I don't get. Dig out some of the trash and build a UG carpark under the pitches? must add a bit of capacity... (ignorant of cost so folks feel free act like a angry monkeys flinging shit at me .

 

 

 

What you said there is out of the clubs control unfortunately. The supporters bar will be positioned so you have to leave the bar then enter through the turnstiles to see the game. There won't be access to it at half time etc. To have direct entry from the bar to the ground there would need to be legislation changes. As for walking right round the stadium there's no way they'll want people walking round from one end to the other along rows of seats. The concourses don't link up from stand to stand.

 

Sure - but part of this thread was speculative / an invite to be imaginative about what could happen. You start at the ideal and then compromise back to the achievable (rather than just sticking to the ideal and everything else being shit)

[Bamber]

 

Segregation - I don't mean 360... more 270... that should be doable. And if people have paid to be in and decide to go runaround... i'm pretty sure that the police use CCTV to look at issues rather than seat numbers... might be better anyway. after 10 mins you can sit anywhere so that crowds go together...

 

 

 

Personally I'm hoping that for say the first 5 or so matches we will have "open access" Season tickets that everyone can sit where they want.

 

This will take us upto the first international weekend that should give 3 clear weeks - at that point you "select your seat"

 

No idea where I want to sit - Id like to try out a few areas see where I prefer

[Ernie McCracken]

Dodgy as fuck.

It will be the company that employs a barrister etc to proceed the judicial review.

 

Means that none of the WANKS will be personally liable if costs get out of hand.

 

Would like to think that any half decent barrister being asked to proceed the judicial review on behalf of a company that is one month would ask for some proof of funds, and as such they'll still have to raise the cash.

[DelMonte]

 

 

I'm at least as much a football "fan" as a journo with a free pass

 

Aye like when we were averaging 8 or 9k under Craig Brown you mean?

 

I think whats more realistic is some fans instead of spending an hour or 2 waiting on, and sat on a bus will decide "nah fuck it I'll watch it at home/listen to the game on the radio" instead

 

Once the novelty of a new ground has worn off like

And some fans would think "think I'll go in to the game today, journey is a lot easier than it used to be at Pittodrie"

 

However you can't seem to get this into your head.

[Stoneybloke]

How many shuttle bus routes will there be?

[Panda]

How many shuttle bus routes will there be?

There's a long answer and short answer.

 

Short answer: seven

 

Long answer: No-one really knows yet because the planners have recommended a transport steering group is set up to oversee it, with a review after each game so it can be constantly refined until they settle on something that works.

 

Also over the next two years expect surveys about how fans currently travel and what likely routes they'll take to Kingsford.

 

However, in the stadium application the club put forward seven routes. Whether these get kept or not is anyone's guess:-

 

Dyce P&R (AWPR)

 

Kingswells P&R

 

Bridge of Don P&R (King Street, Mounthooly Way, Hutcheon St, Westburn Rd, Lang Stracht)

 

Rose Street (Thistle St, Waverley Place, Carden place, Queens Road, B9119)

 

College Street (Springbank Terrace, Willowbank Road, Great Western Road, Anderson Drive, Queens Road, B9119)

 

Shiprow (King Street, West North Street, Westburn Road, Lang Stracht)

 

Bus Station, Guild Street (it's the normal x17 route, but Stagecoach say they will operate an extra 10 buses)

 

 

Can expect that to get ripped apart. Especially Rangers and Celtic fans spending the morning drinking on the train, then going straight onto the X17 bus alongside Aberdeen fans and also general punters who don't want to he caught up in the inevitable sectarian singsong.

 

Surely the sensible thing is for football fans, especially away fans, to get off in Stonehaven, drink there, then get shuttle buses to ground. Shorter trip for a start, and easier to segregate before and after games. There's also the chance that Portlethen P&R will be open by then so trains could stop there. That's what I'm hoping for, then that'll be my route to games sorted whether I'm driving or taking the train, though last I heard Aberdeenshire Council were struggling to raise the money for it.

 

But I suppose if Aberdeen had put Stonehaven etc in the application it'd have been jumped on by others who would have said it was a loss of trade to Aberdeen city centre, extra policing needed in Stonehaven, etc.

[dave_min]

Why would you get off at Portlethen when the AWPR goes to Stonehaven/Altens?

 

You really are clueless when it comes to transport in Aberdeen.

[something_or_other]

Surely the sensible thing is for football fans, especially away fans, to get off in Stonehaven, drink there, then get shuttle buses to ground. Shorter trip for a start, and easier to segregate before and after games. There's also the chance that Portlethen P&R will be open by then so trains could stop there. That's what I'm hoping for, then that'll be my route to games sorted whether I'm driving or taking the train, though last I heard Aberdeenshire Council were struggling to raise the money for it.

 

I am perhaps alone in the fantasy of the Orc gettings of at stonehaven in sensible way.....

 

 

[ABZ RED]

I'm no expert. But, I agree with you, I can't see the current shuttle bus plan working either. I just think 25-30 minutes is about the maximum most people can suffer on packed public transport, so the long journey times of 45 minutes doesn't appeal.

 

However, I don't think it's impossible to fix. How hard can it be to link what is a relatively small city to a site just off a bypass? They have seven routes at the moment (essentially six since Kingswells is walking distance from stadium). They need to double that at least so that there are more direct routes with less pick ups, making the journeys shorter.

 

But, if they do have loads of different routes, then they need to build a proper bus terminal on the Kingsford site otherwise it's going to be a nightmare trying to get the right one after a game. There's a planned stadium in Italy doing just that - Pescara Arena - which will also be around 20,000 capacity.

 

But they have two years to sort it, so here's hoping.

 

You've always acknowledged the shuttle bus plan is pants which is fair enough. I agree about the need for the things you've mentioned. I don't think it's possible to fix because the numbers required don't exist.

 

My point - whatever they come up with will be hundreds of buses and pick ups less compared to now. The attendances at new stadiums often increase a bit because the travel options are much better and quicker. We seem to be doing the total opposite.

 

I'm beginning to wonder if the people who keep trying to push this nonsense are actually football fans.

 

It's not a new swimming pool or a Tim Horton's being built, where locals go along to try it out then gradually get less interested. It's a football club that the fans have supported for years. Any "novelty" will have worn off years ago, but it stays with you for life.

 

When did the novelty wear off at Pittodrie? After the RDS was built? After we fell so far behind the Old Firm we began every season aiming for third? When reaching the top six was seen as a success? When prices rose way beyond inflation?

 

Novelty of the RDS wore off didn't it? In fact it's a monument to nobody turning up hours earlier or caring about modern facilities.

 

The Rangers games wore off very quickly.

 

Celtic full houses wore off.

 

Semi finals wore off massively.

 

Cup finals seemed to wear off.

 

Rangers away wore off.

 

Murrayfield wore off instantly. How many would go to another game away to Hearts there.

[something_or_other]

My point - whatever they come up with will be hundreds of buses and pick ups less compared to now. The attendances at new stadiums often increase a bit because the travel options are much better and quicker. We seem to be doing the total opposite.

 

....

 

Cup finals seemed to wear off.

 

I don't want to reply to all over your points but just the two. I've found the whole transport thing very strange... lets try and predict how people want to go to somewhere that doesn't exist. I'd be surprised if the whole shuttle bus thing doesn't evolve. Its like london tubes where people argue the best way to get somewhere and services adjust... we are sheep but not THAT much...

 

I think that (not just aberdeen fans) scottish football fans are put off going to glasgow for a semi / final against an old firm team as its a pretty horrible experience. I know fans from hibs, hearts, dundee utd that would rather not attend when the old firm are involved. the last semi I could get a ticket for a coin hit the guy in front and cut him. Talk all you want about hard core fans etc but who we are playing and where is a factor. I'd have preferred the mid 90s(?) idea of a stirling stadium rather than ravamping hampden last time round. (i'd actually prefer a border at Cumbernauld

[Stoneybloke]

There's a long answer and short answer.

 

Short answer: seven

 

Long answer: No-one really knows yet because the planners have recommended a transport steering group is set up to oversee it, with a review after each game so it can be constantly refined until they settle on something that works.

 

Also over the next two years expect surveys about how fans currently travel and what likely routes they'll take to Kingsford.

Thanks for the long answer, it indicates that there's a long way to go and a number of problems and adverse experiences to be encountered before a workable shuttle bus solution is achieved. What is certain is that unless supporters are offered relatively smooth travel experiences on match days, it won't take much to put them off going entirely.

[Stoneybloke]

I'd be surprised if the whole shuttle bus thing doesn't evolve.

 

 

It absolutely has to evolve. At the moment it's mostly just speculation based on existing traffic corridors. Initial estimates could be totally wrong. It will have to be monitored and adapted continuously. I reminds me of the distant days in the 50s when large numbers from Aberdeen used to get the bus to Stonehaven and Deeside on a holiday Monday. Nothing was really planned and the inspectors just used to send buses out when they were full. It looked chaotic but somehow it worked. Hopefully they can do the same with the shuttle bus services.

[daytripping]

If shuttle buses are to work they need to cut the car park size or delay cars leaving, make the bus the attractive option. Fuck sitting on a bus in gridlock.

[Highbury Don]

If the club honestly think shuttle buses are the answer then they are mightily deluded.

[Panda]

 

Novelty of the RDS wore off didn't it?

Did it?

 

RDL is pretty much sold out for every game.

 

RDU crowds dropped due to two reasons. The pitch being altered so that it's difficult to see the goal line now without standing on your seat to see over people's heads, and the Old Firm's allocation being reduced meaning the centre section of the south stand became more popular.

 

In fact it's a monument to nobody turning up hours earlier or caring about modern facilities.

What incentive is there to turn up early to the RDS? It's not comparable at all to Kingsford having a fanzone, TV screens and a supporters bar.

 

 

The Rangers games wore off very quickly.

 

Celtic full houses wore off.

 

Semi finals wore off massively.

 

Cup finals seemed to wear off.

 

Rangers away wore off.

 

Murrayfield wore off instantly. How many would go to another game away to Hearts there.

Not sure any of them are true, but even so, what's your point?

 

I thought you were arguing about the location and/or shuttle buses putting fans off. What have all of the above got to do with that?

[Panda]

If shuttle buses are to work they need to cut the car park size or delay cars leaving, make the bus the attractive option. Fuck sitting on a bus in gridlock.

That appears to be the plan already. According to the police, they say if traffic is held back on the A944 to allow all the supporters buses to leave, it will "take two minutes" to get them all out. May have been an off the cuff comment but Aberdeen have used it literally in their application.

 

Presumably the shuttle buses would get priority too.

[strachanmcgheegoal]

When I lived in the central belt at the time of ONeil at the tims they used to do a thing with the buses basically overriding every traffic light with coppers and fasttracking them out. Used to work well for their big euro nights so Im told. (Office was full of plastic tims and corporotate jonnies)

[Bamber]

Did it?

 

RDL is pretty much sold out for every game.

 

RDU crowds dropped due to two reasons. The pitch being altered so that it's difficult to see the goal line now without standing on your seat to see over people's heads, and the Old Firm's allocation being reduced meaning the centre section of the south stand became more popular.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think there is also a further reason

 

Once people realised they could smoke round the back of the south stand at half time a hell of a lot of fans have moved from the RDS to the South stand

[Dynamo]

When I lived in the central belt at the time of ONeil at the tims they used to do a thing with the buses basically overriding every traffic light with coppers and fasttracking them out. Used to work well for their big euro nights so Im told. (Office was full of plastic tims and corporotate jonnies)

 

Shh nobody is interested in anything that worked.

[BWG]

How is traffic going to be a problem when we'll only be getting crowds of 6000 anyway?

[Andy_123]

And we'll all be driving and parking over Westhill residents driveways, so the shuttle buses shouldn't be an issue

[beer gut]

The transport issue is just a paperwork exercise to satisfy planners and the council. Shuttle buses are a good idea in theory and will be laid on to start with but they will probably just fade into memory due to lack of use. The same way no fucker uses park and ride to go to work. Most people just want to get to the game, watch the game and get home. Aberdeen can lay on 1000 shuttle buses but they can't make people use them. Folk like driving their own cars and will just park in tescos/costco and local office car parks.

 

Fanzones are great for international tournaments where everyone is basically on holiday and there are loads of different fans mixing, i don't think they would quite work for your average SPL game in Scotland where the weather is pish most match days.