tutankamun Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Disappointing 4th set from Murray, so many unforced errors hitting it into the net. Very frustrating as he was making some unbelievable shots at times. Nadal was dominant though, especially in the first 2 sets. Should a good final but will have to go some to beat that semi with Federer & Djokovic. Link to comment
sheepiekev Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Bottom line is Nadal is the Man U of tennis....if he plays well, you wont win.Murray is a great player, just Nadal (and Djokovic) are a little better. Link to comment
OddJob Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Bottom line is Nadal is the Man U of tennis....if he plays well, you wont win.Murray is a great player, just Nadal (and Djokovic) are a little better.Precisely. Real shame for Andy playing around the same era as this lot. Link to comment
Lang Bar Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Precisely. Real shame for Andy playing around the same era as this lot. Nae really.He isnae good enough, they are better.He is able to do it in the tuppeny ha'peny tournaments, but winning a Grand Slam event takes a different mentality.The same mentality in a different era would have the same result. He'd lose.I'm nae slagging him, it's a fact. I admire him getting to the level he is at.Unless he gets a coach on board who can change his mental approach, he will never win a Grand Slam.I hope he gets such a coach in as his top priority. Link to comment
Sonoftherock Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Nae really.He isnae good enough, they are better.He is able to do it in the tuppeny ha'peny tournaments, but winning a Grand Slam event takes a different mentality.The same mentality in a different era would have the same result. He'd lose.I'm nae slagging him, it's a fact. I admire him getting to the level he is at.Unless he gets a coach on board who can change his mental approach, he will never win a Grand Slam.I hope he gets such a coach in as his top priority. I appreciate the argument, but I believe you're wide of the mark. I think it's unfair. Nadal, Federer and Djokovic are just better. No coach or psychologist can alter that fact. That's life I'm afraid. Andy has had a fantastic season in reaching the semi finals of every grand slam this year. You don't reach this level with a weak mentality. I still hold out hope he can win a slam one day, but the reality is that he'll need a massive slice of luck, or a couple of injuries to the top lads. Men tennis is enjoying a golden era right now and it's fantastic watch these guys who are collectively the best since the days of Borg, Conners and McEnroe. Andy would certainly have won a slam if he'd been born 10-15 years prior, when the likes of Hewitt, Rafter, Safin, Kafelnikov, Johansson and Korda were winning hard court championships. Those guys couldn't lace the boots of Fed, Nadal and Djokovic. Link to comment
Jocky Balboa Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 I appreciate the argument, but I believe you're wide of the mark. I think it's unfair. Nadal, Federer and Djokovic are just better. No coach or psychologist can alter that fact. That's life I'm afraid. Andy has had a fantastic season in reaching the semi finals of every grand slam this year. You don't reach this level with a weak mentality. I still hold out hope he can win a slam one day, but the reality is that he'll need a massive slice of luck, or a couple of injuries to the top lads. Men tennis is enjoying a golden era right now and it's fantastic watch these guys who are collectively the best since the days of Borg, Conners and McEnroe. Andy would certainly have won a slam if he'd been born 10-15 years prior, when the likes of Hewitt, Rafter, Safin, Kafelnikov, Johansson and Korda were winning hard court championships. Those guys couldn't lace the boots of Fed, Nadal and Djokovic. The question that has to be asked however, is why Djokovic has eclipsed Murray in the last 15mths or so? I think it's Mrs. Matriarch (sorry, Murray) and her omnipresence at every tournament that has held him back. He needs to retrieve his testicles from her handbag, tell her to back off, then employ a top Coach who can and will see him realise his full potential (oh and sort out his frankly AWFUL 1st serve % rate. That is the one shocking weakness in his game and costs him countless points). Link to comment
Sonoftherock Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 The question that has to be asked however, is why Djokovic has eclipsed Murray in the last 15mths or so? I think it's Mrs. Matriarch (sorry, Murray) and her omnipresence at every tournament that has held him back. He needs to retrieve his testicles from her handbag, tell her to back off, then employ a top Coach who can and will see him realise his full potential (oh and sort out his frankly AWFUL 1st serve % rate. That is the one shocking weakness in his game and costs him countless points). No idea why people talk about his mum. That's also nonsense regarding her presence at every tourament. She certainly doesn't travel with his entourage and only usually attends the grand slam events, like many parents would! Also I'd argue that his poor first serve % is the only weakness in his game. His forehand isn't great and is also prone to the odd breakdown. His second serve is also far too slow and he doesn't get it deep consistently enough. The reason Djokovic has eclipsed Murray is because he's better than him. Simple as that. Not everyone can be as devinely talented as Novak Djokovic. In my opinion Murray has done the best he possibly could have with his god given talent. With a bit of luck he might yet win a major. He's the fourth best player in the world and he's played to his seeding, or above in every single grand slam this season. He is what he is. Link to comment
minijc Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 No idea why people talk about his mum. That's also nonsense regarding her presence at every tourament. She certainly doesn't travel with his entourage and only usually attends the grand slam events, like many parents would! Also I'd argue that his poor first serve % is the only weakness in his game. His forehand isn't great and is also prone to the odd breakdown. His second serve is also far too slow and he doesn't get it deep consistently enough. The reason Djokovic has eclipsed Murray is because he's better than him. Simple as that. Not everyone can be as devinely talented as Novak Djokovic. In my opinion Murray has done the best he possibly could have with his god given talent. With a bit of luck he might yet win a major. He's the fourth best player in the world and he's played to his seeding, or above in every single grand slam this season. He is what he is.About two seasons ago, Djokovic and Murray were more or less the exact same, mentality was the real issue in my opinion, Djokovic has managed to get over the mental hurdle of winning the big matches and has kept it going, I reckon Murray could easily click and go on to have similar success as Djokovic had this season. Link to comment
tup Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Thank christ, ten pounds in my hipper rather than the bookie, say no more. His mither is clearly the problem, rabid old boot, manic on the sidelines, GTF he should be telling her, he's an adult, his mither thinks it's about her, he should get her manhandled out the arena by security and draw a line in the sand. When you see the shape of his brither, you can see they are a weird family, distancing himself from that weirdness is the key to Grand Slam success. You see her type at kids fitba matches, far too enthusiastic, and counter productive to getting the kids to play football, such is the mad mithers zeal and tunnel vision for her offspring, these people need telt, in no uncertain terms, to take their enthusiasm elsewhere, save it for the kitchen or the bedroom dear. Link to comment
Sonoftherock Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 About two seasons ago, Djokovic and Murray were more or less the exact same, mentality was the real issue in my opinion, Djokovic has managed to get over the mental hurdle of winning the big matches and has kept it going, I reckon Murray could easily click and go on to have similar success as Djokovic had this season. You are right in some respects, for Djokovic it was completely a mental thing. He has always had near flawless game, however he struggled for consistency and, as you say the mental side of his game let him down. The difference with Murray is that I don't feel he has that extra yard to find. He just isn't as good as Djokovic - who has always been better than Murray in all departments of his game (other than on the backhand). I think people are always looking for an excuse, or some sort of conspiracy theory, on why Murray hasn't won a major. However, I watch a great deal of Tennis and I have to say the bottom line is that Murray just isn't good enough. Sometimes you just have to accept that you're not quite good enough. People talk about his mentality, but I don't see a massive problem in this area. His mentality is nowhere near as big-a-problem as his low first service %, his poor second service and his dodgy forehand. Going back to Djokovic, he always had the all-round game which Murray just doesn't possess. Link to comment
OddJob Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Surprised nobody has mentioned anything about this from last night: Serena Williams has been fined $2,000 ( Link to comment
dervish Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 About Murray I do think he doesn't take responsibly for his play properly (that's where the petulance comes from) and so doesn't learn from it, and it's possible his mum has an effect on that. Also he lets his environment define him rather than the other way round, he plays to others games, you can't switch your game that much through a tournament and think it'll be ok in a semi or final. However on his game, playing as well as he can not many would beat him, serves the fastest out of the top four and is the best returner. Link to comment
sheepiekev Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Thank christ, ten pounds in my hipper rather than the bookie, say no more. His mither is clearly the problem, rabid old boot, manic on the sidelines, GTF he should be telling her, he's an adult, his mither thinks it's about her, he should get her manhandled out the arena by security and draw a line in the sand. When you see the shape of his brither, you can see they are a weird family, distancing himself from that weirdness is the key to Grand Slam success. You see her type at kids fitba matches, far too enthusiastic, and counter productive to getting the kids to play football, such is the mad mithers zeal and tunnel vision for her offspring, these people need telt, in no uncertain terms, to take their enthusiasm elsewhere, save it for the kitchen or the bedroom dear. Utter pish as usual.Djokovic & Nadal regularly have their parents at their games. Does it hamper them?!Murray is playing in an era that has the two best players of all time (Nadal & Federer) and potentially the best of the lot in Djokovic.He's 4th in the world comfortably and as someone else has said, plays to his ranking in every grand slam.If he was around when Roddick was No.1 he'd be a multi grand slam champion more than likely. He may well not win a major/grand slam, but that's hardly failure. Link to comment
fifered Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Murray is playing in an era that has the two best players of all time (Nadal & Federer) and potentially the best of the lot in Djokovic.He's 4th in the world comfortably and as someone else has said, plays to his ranking in every grand slam.If he was around when Roddick was No.1 he'd be a multi grand slam champion more than likely. He may well not win a major/grand slam, but that's hardly failure.totally agree. nadal, federer and potentially djokovic are up with the best half dozen players of all time at least. physically awesome athletes with amazing mental strength. at the top tennis is all about the important points, break point down, the tie breaks etc. those three rarely loose the big points because they are mentally better than everyone else. Murray would have been a slam winner in any other era, even the sampras agassi era imo but its gonna take a monumental effort to win one in the next few years. Link to comment
Sonoftherock Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 totally agree. nadal, federer and potentially djokovic are up with the best half dozen players of all time at least. physically awesome athletes with amazing mental strength. at the top tennis is all about the important points, break point down, the tie breaks etc. those three rarely loose the big points because they are mentally better than everyone else. Murray would have been a slam winner in any other era, even the sampras agassi era imo but its gonna take a monumental effort to win one in the next few years. It may sound stupid, but Murray vs Sampras is a match up I'd have to have seen. Other than Agassi, who had great success against Sampras, Sampras never had to face a returner of Murrays quality. Murray usually brushes the big servers aside and would have made him play more balls than he's used to. I've always though Murray would match up favourably with Sampras. Incidentally, the freak quality of the current crop at the top of mens tennis is confirmed by the failure of any players to even get close to breaking their strangle hold. Djokovic, Murray and Nadal are 24 or 25 and since these guys arrived on the scene, a long, long time ago, we've not seen a single emerging young play get close to them. Link to comment
diamondsr4ever Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Murray outplayed and outclassed Nadal for 1 1/2 sets at wimbledon this year and also took a set off him at the French, IMO he was one smash away from knocking Nadal out of wimbledon, but thats lifeand sport. I think the lad is improving and will only continue to improve, with a wee bit of luck and a break here and there he will win a slam, he has the game for it. Link to comment
minijc Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 To me, Murray doesn't like being told what to do, Novak, at the end of last season sat down with people he trusted, listened to them now look at him, totally different player, Murray need to do this himself, think his best form came when being coached by the guy Miles but then Murray didn't like what he was being told, they went seperate ways now Murray who has improved is at a hurdle he just can't get over, I think he can do it but he just really need to sort a few things out. Link to comment
Sonoftherock Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 To me, Murray doesn't like being told what to do, Novak, at the end of last season sat down with people he trusted, listened to them now look at him, totally different player, Murray need to do this himself, think his best form came when being coached by the guy Miles but then Murray didn't like what he was being told, they went seperate ways now Murray who has improved is at a hurdle he just can't get over, I think he can do it but he just really need to sort a few things out. This has been Murrays best year to date by far. His consistency level has been outstanding in reaching the semifinals of all 4 majors. He got rid of McLagan at the tail-end of a horrendous 6 month period when he could hardly buy a game! Link to comment
diamondsr4ever Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 To me, Murray doesn't like being told what to do, Novak, at the end of last season sat down with people he trusted, listened to them now look at him, totally different player, Murray need to do this himself, think his best form came when being coached by the guy Miles but then Murray didn't like what he was being told, they went seperate ways now Murray who has improved is at a hurdle he just can't get over, I think he can do it but he just really need to sort a few things out. the best thing he did was get rid of this guy, Murray knows he has the ability, however he knows when the time is right for him to introduce a new coach, a coach that WILL take him to the level to win a slam, as I said earlier, its not always about being brilliant, sometimes a break here and there wins you slams, when you look at guys like lendel, they werent blessed with anything more but grit and determination. When you look at the slam finals Murray has played in the BEST in the world have had to be on their A game to beat him, Nadal was at his best on Friday, Murray just needs to be at his best and when it happens he will win a slam Link to comment
minijc Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 This has been Murrays best year to date by far. His consistency level has been outstanding in reaching the semifinals of all 4 majors. He got rid of McLagan at the tail-end of a horrendous 6 month period when he could hardly buy a game!Maybe I'm getting the coaches mixed up then? Would agree with you that this has been his best year actually. Link to comment
Terrorfex Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Murray will win a grandslam; it's a dead cert. The issue will be that (cynical) people will call it a "Half Grandslam" 'cause it'll be one where he only beats one of the big three (Federer, Djokovic or Nadal) while the rest suffer a tournament nightmare and drop out at an early stage, leaving Murray a "plucky outsider" to crush in the final. They all count the same, though. Link to comment
RAZOR Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 This has been Murrays best year to date by far. His consistency level has been outstanding in reaching the semifinals of all 4 majors.He got rid of McLagan at the tail-end of a horrendous 6 month period when he could hardly buy a game!Only the 7th player to do so. Link to comment
E-P-K Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Only the 7th player to do so. Yip,Laver, Roche, Lendl, Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are the others. Link to comment
RAZOR Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Yip,Laver, Roche, Lendl, Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are the others.Did they win a Grandslam? Link to comment
E-P-K Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Did they win a Grandslam? Aye, about 20 grand slams between the 3 of them Link to comment
RAZOR Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Aye, about 20 grand slams between the 3 of them Link to comment
RUL Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Yip, Laver, Roche, Lendl, Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are the others.Think murrays problem is highlighted in that one post! Link to comment
Sonoftherock Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I see Murray won the Bangkok 250 the other day! Very big chance, between now and the end of the year, to leap-frog Federer into 3rd in the world rankings. Between now and December Federer is defending a huge proportion of his total points > 3000, while Murray defends only 1500. The difference is 900 points right now. Link to comment
RUL Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 To be fair, all that means is he will be pumped by nadal and not djokovic at the majors? Link to comment
Sonoftherock Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 To be fair, all that means is he will be pumped by nadal and not djokovic at the majors? Yeah doesn't really make much difference... the top two seeds are on either side of the draw, while the 3rd and 4th are also kept apart. Link to comment
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