Mccall The New Mcghee?

[tup]

i suspected that after his first post on this thread, he confirmed this with his theory that Maguire is worth

[barassie_afc]

If you have nothing good to say, it.s best to say nothing at all.

 

You should have been telt that as a bairn.

 

Unless you're going to produce a coherent counter argument, I suggest you f**koff with your repeated objections to my points without offering anything approaching an alternative point of view.

 

You've got a chip on your shoulder having been proven hopelessly wrong earlier in the thread.

 

Get over yersel barassie.

 

 

Am quite sure if Motherwell had been turned over today you would be waxing lyrical about just how right you were.......... also I fail to see where I have been proved wrong

[tup]

He kens f**k all about computers though.

 

I dinna need to, fitba is my forte.

 

Are you going to the semi-final boofon?

 

You dinna seem to have a great deal of interest in actual football itself for someone who frequents message boards.

[tup]

Am quite sure if Motherwell had been turned over today you would be waxing lyrical about just how right you were.......... also I fail to see where I have been proved wrong

 

They were playing Hibs, the worst team seen at Pittodrie this season.

 

Listen, I'm not of a mind to argue with someone who offers little more than 'what a load of pish' or 'rubbish' or other sniping posts with no substance.

 

If you can back that up with something to the contrary which has merit in reality, I'll speak and debate with you.

 

Being negative and contemptous for the sake of it is not something that either impresses me or engages me.

[The Boofon]

I dinna need to, fitba is my forte.

 

Are you going to the semi-final boofon?

 

You dinna seem to have a great deal of interest in actual football itself for someone who frequents message boards.

 

 

I'll probably be away overseas again at the start of the week so I'll miss the semi.

 

I have a great deal of interest in Aberdeen FC but due to the piss poor performances of late I've stopped going. Now that it looks like we're fighting for the jersey a bit more, I may return prior to the end of the season but more than likely wait until next season before I return.

 

Any other fitba can go kiss my hole.

[tup]

No it isn't guaranteed. He has talent, yes, and the potential to be worth seven figures but he has much to iron out of his game. No way would I say he's going to go that far. At his age and with his experience he still makes too many basic f.uck ups and loses possession with an alarming frequency and often in critical areas of the field.

 

He is showing promise. He is never guaranteed to be worth one mill let alone several.

 

I'm talking about the insane and out of control English transfer market here.

 

Snodgrass was on loan at Stirling just a couple of years back. Livingston very nearly washed their hands of him not so long ago.

 

Leeds would be very unlikely to accept less than

[The Boofon]

The relevance of this in relation to the price of sea-faring consumables being what, exactly?

 

Nothing really I thought I'd just throw it out there in case anyone thought Tup was a know it all. He kens his fitba all right, he's just rubbish with computers.

 

Gives people a fighting chance in other topics.

[tup]

I'll probably be away overseas again at the start of the week so I'll miss the semi.

 

I have a great deal of interest in Aberdeen FC but due to the piss poor performances of late I've stopped going. Now that it looks like we're fighting for the jersey a bit more, I may return prior to the end of the season but more than likely wait until next season before I return.

 

Any other fitba can go kiss my hole.

 

I have to agree, with the exception of the national team who I have a great deal of interest and fondness for.

 

The massive issue in this country is the absolute obsession with foreign fitba to the total detriment of our own league and game.

 

Yes, I'm talking Murdoch and the EPL, I canna express enough my contempt for those in Scotland who 'follow' English teams. This football should be little more than a footnote in our press and television coverage, but as things stand they saturate us and rule the roost in terms of armchair support.

[The Boofon]

I have to agree, with the exception of the national team who I have a great deal of interest and fondness for.

 

The massive issue in this country is the absolute obsession with foreign fitba to the total detriment of our own league and game.

 

Yes, I'm talking Murdoch and the EPL, I canna express enough my contempt for those in Scotland who 'follow' English teams. This football should be little more than a footnote in our press and television coverage, but as things stand they saturate us and rule the roost in terms of armchair support.

 

 

Agree 100%

 

It's been mentioned elsewhere but it's a travesty that the matches shown on BBC1 Scotland tonight as highlights will be from England.

 

The National team can lick my balls though. I've never bought into the kilt wearing shortbread tin nonsense that accompanies it.

[tup]

I agree with the insanity of talking down both our own players and our fitba, relative to the Championship for example but Maguire did it again today after about 15 minutes and did it almost half a dozen times in the first 20 minutes v. DUFC. Any scout watching Maguire can not possibly put a valuation near seven figures for him yet whilst he makes so many schoolboy errors. He's a livewire, he has pace, his shooting is more often off target but has so much more to improve on before he realises his obvious potential. I'm not denigrating him here. I agree that he should be our most lucrative asset and I would like to see him getting cashed him in for in for decent dough and agree that sub 500k is not good enough for now. But Snodgrass has done the business down south and so has Adam. I'm not so sure that CM is capable of making such an impact.

 

I think the mis-timing of things and the sometime impression of him as being slightly off the pace has more to do with the slower football brains of his team mates than any reflection on his own ability.

 

Call it 'Darren Fletcher' syndrome if you like, this guy performes in a world class manner for Manchester United but can sometimes appear to be relatively poor for the national team.

 

This only happens because his thinking, if you watch closely, is sometimes several steps ahead of his team mates, whereas in the EPL he has team mates who appreciate and react to his quicker level of thought on the park.

 

I tend to think Maguire is the same, and would shine greatly in a better team than ours.

[barassie_afc]

Ok Tup ,here goes.

 

You come on here with this evangelical zealousness about Maguire's potential , claiming you are some form of football svengali that knows how to spot talent and is right no matter. This generally annoys me. However with respect to Maguire I do not disagree he has shown a few flashes of potential, however he is miles from where he should be , and his attitude , in my opinion is still questionable.

 

If you want to draw a sensible comparison with a player I grudgingly admire then use Steven Naismith. Naismith ever since he broke into Killie's first team could play anywhere along the midfield and upfront. He is a wee guy yet able to bully, harass, and outjump those much bigger. The reason for this is ATTITUDE and APPLICATION, this guy doesnt give up,digs in and fights and fights. You never heard Naismith complain when he was at Killie and was played in different positions, as he does for Rangers and now to an extent Scotland. To me he is the benchmark ( Hun aside) , Maguire isnt even close.

[tup]

Agree 100%

 

It's been mentioned elsewhere but it's a travesty that the matches shown on BBC1 Scotland tonight as highlights will be from England.

 

The National team can lick my balls though. I've never bought into the kilt wearing shortbread tin nonsense that accompanies it.

 

Aye well, each to their own, I'm Scottish and I support Scotland, so I'm fully behind the team in all games, and love watching them as I feel it's the only time we all throw our weight behind the one team in this country.

 

I don't go in for kilts and shortbread I have to admit, I'm more of a mind for tins of lagers and fags.

[muttonhumper]

Agree 100%

 

It's been mentioned elsewhere but it's a travesty that the matches shown on BBC1 Scotland tonight as highlights will be from England.

 

The National team can lick my balls though. I've never bought into the kilt wearing shortbread tin nonsense that accompanies it.

 

C'mon min. Lighten up.

Following Scotland is a bit o' fun. Nae mare. Nae less.

To me onywie.

Some legendary trips and unbelievable crack and some serious friendships built.

 

Okay.

That's maybe nae for you.

But that's a poor excuse for nae even supporting your country is it nae?

Up to yoursel' of course.

[tup]

Ok Tup ,here goes.

 

You come on here with this evangelical zealousness about Maguire's potential , claiming you are some form of football svengali that knows how to spot talent and is right no matter. This generally annoys me. However with respect to Maguire I do not disagree he has shown a few flashes of potential, however he is miles from where he should be , and his attitude , in my opinion is still questionable.

 

If you want to draw a sensible comparison with a player I grudgingly admire then use Steven Naismith. Naismith ever since he broke into Killie's first team could play anywhere along the midfield and upfront. He is a wee guy yet able to bully, harass, and outjump those much bigger. The reason for this is ATTITUDE and APPLICATION, this guy doesnt give up,digs in and fights and fights. You never heard Naismith complain when he was at Killie and was played in different positions, as he does for Rangers and now to an extent Scotland. To me he is the benchmark ( Hun aside) , Maguire isnt even close.

 

No I don't come on as any kind of authority, I'm only offering an opinion.

 

Naismith plays for a better team so of course he will offer more. He gets more of the ball and more chances.

 

A better comparison would be the Naismith of Kilmarnock days, and in that respect him and our Maguire are neck and neck.

[tup]

You are speculating about how he might perform with better players and you could be right.

 

In the meantime, you must acknowledge his weaknesses that continue to frustrate?

 

Today, under no pressure, he passed straight to one of them at the edge of our box. Reminiscent of the shudder time nine but this is what this little c.unt does ALL the time, giving up possession needlessly and totally carelessly. He drives me nuts.

 

Aye you maybe right, but there's very few players who play well every game all the time. I'm basing my opinion on what he does more often than not, and more often than not he plays very well for our club and has a level of ability, control, and shooting power and precision which sets him apart from the majority of his contemporaries.

[barassie_afc]

No I don't come on as any kind of authority, I'm only offering an opinion.

 

Naismith plays for a better team so of course he will offer more. He gets more of the ball and more chances.

 

A better comparison would be the Naismith of Kilmarnock days, and in that respect him and our Maguire are neck and neck.

 

Sorry Tup going to have to disagree, Naismith was a stand out most weeks for Killie , won young player of year awards and had a decent goal scoring record, considering he was played in midfield and upfront.

[tup]

Sorry Tup going to have to disagree, Naismith was a stand out most weeks for Killie , won young player of year awards and had a decent goal scoring record, considering he was played in midfield and upfront.

 

Bear in mind that Maguire, up until several weeks ago, was playing for one of the worst Dons sides in living memory, and still he did enough to mark him out as above average.

 

Naismith did less for the Scotland under-21 team than Maguire has, and played up front with Boyd for Kilmarnock, so it's all a wee bit subjective.

 

To me Maguire is every bit as talented as Naismith, but I'm sure the benefit of a blue nosed press has been the making of Naismith.

 

It's all about fitba ability for me and nothing to do with journalistic hyperbole.

[tup]

Disagree. The first game of season oatcake (very early JC) when SN scored the winner at Pittodrie (was it his Kille debut?), he was class. I've never said Maguire was in that class because he isn't, in my opinion.

 

Fair enough, time will tell and the Maguire of a couple of years time will be the proof we all seek.

 

I think he's going to be a star.

[barassie_afc]

Bear in mind that Maguire, up until several weeks ago, was playing for one of the worst Dons sides in living memory, and still he did enough to mark him out as above average.

 

Naismith did less for the Scotland under-21 team than Maguire has, and played up front with Boyd for Kilmarnock, so it's all a wee bit subjective.

 

To me Maguire is every bit as talented as Naismith, but I'm sure the benefit of a blue nosed press has been the making of Naismith.

 

It's all about fitba ability for me and nothing to do with journalistic hyperbole.

 

 

Yes Tup the raw talent is maybe there, but Naismiths' other qualities as I described have assisted him , Maguire , to me, has a heart of a gnat.

[Ke1t]

Maguire, so far as I can tell, is a forward in the mould of Duncan Shearer.

 

Watching him run down the wings after speculative balls invariably ended with him stopping, shielding the ball, and then losing the ball. If you had done that with Duncan Shearer he would possibly have stopped, not having what you would call stupendous pace, he would shield the ball... however shearer was a powerfully built guy, and he would be able to hold off an opponent until he had a man to pass the ball off to.

 

Shearer's value lay in his willingness to take shots and his ability to get into positions where those shots would trouble the keeper. His supporting play was debatable, but that paled in significance compared to his value in and around the other team's penalty area.

 

To me, Maguire is like Duncan Shearer without the muscle. You shouldn't be looking to knock the ball to him out on the wings, you should be playing him through the middle and aiming to get the ball to his feet as far forward as possible. Knocking balls for him to chase along the wing is generally wasteful. Maybe if/when he bulks up and can hold an opponent off he'll be more useful in an all round sense.... a'la Shearer. But like Shearer his true value is right down the middle, no f**king around.

[boboisared]

DS was a centre forward out and out goal scorer. Maguire's role for AFC is like Templeton for Hearts i.e. utilise pace down the flanks to whip balls into the box for the centre forward to stick away e.g. St Mirren last game. He's never been and never will be a centre forward, the pinnacle of the attack, the main target man. The likes of Naismith, Templeton and Maguire will always get a share of goals given their attacking roles but will never get CF numbers, anywhere near the 20's.

Exactly.

 

Most seem to use his goal scoring record as a reason to call him sh*te but seriously how many teams that aren't challenging for their respective titles have two goal scorers? I can't think of any bar a very good Hibs side as a Scottish option but that was years ago. It's only in exceptional circumstances you have a mid table/European place challenging side with both frontmen regularly sticking the ball in the net.

[Ke1t]

DS was a centre forward out and out goal scorer. Maguire's role for AFC is like Templeton for Hearts i.e. utilise pace down the flanks to whip balls into the box for the centre forward to stick away e.g. St Mirren last game. He's never been and never will be a centre forward, the pinnacle of the attack, the main target man. The likes of Naismith, Templeton and Maguire will always get a share of goals given their attacking roles but will never get CF numbers, anywhere near the 20's.

 

I'm not talking about how he's being used, I'm talking about how I perceive him. And clearly out on the flanks he's limited both in his ability to go past his man and to hold up play. Now call me old fashioned, but those, to me, are pretty important qualities for a wide man to lack. If you can't get past your man then you need to hold up play and wait for support. If you can't do either then, you know, wtf are you doing out on the wing?

 

What he does have is a good shot on him and a direct style of play. That tags him more as an out and out striker than some guileful wing wizard, so far as I'm concerned.

[fifered]

The lower league dross one of which has been player of the season (now injured), another top scorer and another captain?????

 

Dont think you can knock mcghee's signings. It was his and his staff's attitudes that had us in bother.

Totally agree. I think MM signings in the summer were good. Certainly the squad he left was better than the squad he inherited.

[boboisared]

Totally agree. I think MM signings in the summer were good. Certainly the squad he left was better than the squad he inherited.

He left a better quality centre midfield. That's about it.

 

You could argue all day about who's better Vernon or Miller. Vernon gets the goals but Miller was better with the ball outside the box.

[fifered]

He left a better quality centre midfield. That's about it.

 

You could argue all day about who's better Vernon or Miller. Vernon gets the goals but Miller was better with the ball outside the box.

I think McArdle is a better player than any of the other defenders we have (at CB) and I certainly prefer Vernon to Miller. Miller was a lazy bugger. I agree about the midfield for sure, there is no comparison between Kerr/McDonald and Hartley/Folly.

 

As for the original point about McCall. I don't think he can be blamed for getting players from the lower leagues in England, that is where Scottish football is just now. Besides, there are some quality players that can be picked up for relatively little cash, the winger that Blackpool signed in the summer (who's name escapes me just now) looks a bargain in the small glimpses I've seen of him. Chris Smalling is another good example, picked up from non-league football by Fulham and sold on for a huge profit.

[Ke1t]

He left a better quality centre midfield. That's about it.

 

You could argue all day about who's better Vernon or Miller. Vernon gets the goals but Miller was better with the ball outside the box.

 

So it would boil down to which you would rather have...vernon, a striker who scores goals, plus 600k.. or Miller, a striker who wasn't prolific for us but was maybe superior in non-scoring ways.

 

I liked Miller, but on balance gimme Vernon's goals and 600k. To me the main attribute in a striker is putting the ball away, and the creation side of things falls to the midfield.

[boboisared]

So it would boil down to which you would rather have...vernon, a striker who scores goals, plus 600k.. or Miller, a striker who wasn't prolific for us but was maybe superior in non-scoring ways.

 

I liked Miller, but on balance gimme Vernon's goals and 600k. To me the main attribute in a striker is putting the ball away, and the creation side of things falls to the midfield.

I'm happier with Vernon because he is getting the service currently.

 

Miller wasn't going to score a lot of goals but would have benefitted from a player of Mackie's pace who could score goals and had some sort of football brain.

[Bobbyskitter]

I'm talking about the insane and out of control English transfer market here.

 

Snodgrass was on loan at Stirling just a couple of years back. Livingston very nearly washed their hands of him not so long ago.

 

Leeds would be very unlikely to accept less than

[paulkaneatemyhamster]

Interesting op:

 

Is McCall the new mm? In terms of pedigree , no but I can easily see McCall going down the mm route of bringing lower league England players up here and assume they are better. Id prefer spl teams to raid lower league Scottish clubs as the standard is very much the same if not better, Plus any transfer fee stays in Scotland improving lower league football .

 

As for the gap between spl & epl I always say if afc were given the same funds and same platform we'd eventually become a lower end epl regular. Let's be honest there's a lot of dross down there who are built upon tv money and nothing else. With the same resources & exposure we'd batter the likes of Wigan, fulham, Blackburn etc etc. We are a much bigger club than even our own fans think we are.

 

Re bebo: he's a talent but he'd be advised to stay here for a year or 2 , develop under brown & knox then make his move, then he'd command top dollar in wages and fees

[The Boofon]

Interesting op:

 

Is McCall the new mm? In terms of pedigree , no but I can easily see McCall going down the mm route of bringing lower league England players up here and assume they are better. Id prefer spl teams to raid lower league Scottish clubs as the standard is very much the same if not better, Plus any transfer fee stays in Scotland improving lower league football .

 

As for the gap between spl & epl I always say if afc were given the same funds and same platform we'd eventually become a lower end epl regular. Let's be honest there's a lot of dross down there who are built upon tv money and nothing else. With the same resources & exposure we'd batter the likes of Wigan, fulham, Blackburn etc etc. We are a much bigger club than even our own fans think we are.

 

Re bebo: he's a talent but he'd be advised to stay here for a year or 2 , develop under brown & knox then make his move, then he'd command top dollar in wages and fees

 

 

Maguire will be staying.

 

3 year contract with a promise that we can let him go for 2 million if a team wishes to bid that for him and he wants to take the challenge.

 

Brown and Knox will ensure he stays as they are respected beyond comprehension.

 

Happy days.