Sevco Thread

[vanderark14]

 

What do you want?

More money or more games of other teams?

 

Incidentally 14 of our 33 league games so far this season have been on TV.

 

Prior to the huns death. I'd bet that more than 90% of TV games featured either side of the OF

 

I would like to see all tv money equally divided among all teams in the top division because it takes them all to make the league. I would like to see a spread of games as well so that other teams can receive more exposure.

 

on a side note I would be happy if all money from the league including gate receipts was evenly distributed among all teams to make it completely fair, its the only way you can have a fair competition. Anything else always leave some clubs with a distinct advantage.............this goes for all football IMO and I realise I am on my own with this as its a debate some of us had on a few occasions.

[Bamber]

 

I'm looking at it entirely objectively.

 

All i'm claiming is that the game is weighted in favour of the big two. Its zander and Bamber who appear to be arguing otherwise.

 

I object to that.

 

 

Actually what you started off with was that the money was distributed all the way down to the lower divisions to the benefit of one team which in fact is incorrect as it never went down to the lower divisions It only went down to the Championship

 

Due to this the reallocation of money has had a positive impact on 12 teams something that will be impossible to change back to as it was

 

I'm also not sure where you get your figures from as to the pot

 

From my research its now

 

1st 13.4%

2nd 9.6%

3rd 8.25%

 

Now if the argument is it right for 1st place to get significantly more than 2nd place thats a different argument to corruption

 

Take a completely different sport Tennis at Wimbledon

 

1st 7.7%

2nd 3.6%

3rd 1.8%

 

Don't hear much talk about corruption and how it only benefits the best with 1st getting twice the cash that 2nd gets - 2nd getting twice the amount that 3rd and 4th get and so on

 

 

So it hardly now benefits the top 2 - Who are they anyway? one minute you are arguing that Rangers are a top 2 club the next you are arguing that TV shouldn't be showing them because they are in the 2nd division?

 

Payments USED to be wrong they are much better now and will stay that way they wont be changing back

 

There are enough arguments about what was and is wrong with the situation without us making stuff up to make it try and fit an agenda - all making up stuff does is weaken they other arguments with all the noise that's being made

[King Street Loon]

Thoughts: Is Smith’s Collusion Behind The Bitterness ?

April 14, 2016 · by Ralph Malph · in Latest

El cormaco asks if Walter Smith’s rant is down to his own mistakes, and wonders if he’s just getting his version in first….

 

I wanted to stay away from talking about Rangers / “Rangers” and all parts in between. “Rangers” are a real club now, and will be in the SPL next year. Fine. I m still interested in finding the truth of the EBT years, and the birth of Sevco into “Rangers”, but day to day I couldn’t give a hoot about their team, players or fans, but Walters “bitter” comments I couldn’t leave alone.

I’ve taken some of his comments and addressed them, in I hope a factual manner. Even if Walter has a laissez faire attitude to facts I d like to rise above that.

“I think it [ill feeling] will always be there. There was no necessity for Rangers to be put down into the Third Division.”

Rangers weren’t “put down” except in the same way a sick dog is. If Rangers really were put down, why didn’t they still play in Europe the following season, or enter the Scottish Cup at the same point when SPL teams do? Or sue the SPFL / SFA for loss of earnings / unfair practice? Among the multiple protests they embarked upon in 2012 I don’t recall a single whimper about this “being put down” business.

 

The gates of their own stadium are pretty clear – Rangers FC was a limited company, and when the company went bust – the Ltd part, guess what, the club did too.

The truth is Rangers applied to join leagues as a new club, as even Walter at the time acknowledged, and were accepted in SFL 3.

“I think that’s the thing that will always stay in Scottish football, I think there will be a bitterness in the Rangers ranks that it happened. It will be a massive motivation for the club, it would be for me.

“There will be a bitterness in the Rangers ranks that it happened”

Rangers brought their own dissolution upon themselves by setting up off the books payments to players, running up unsustainable debts (which we as tax payers ultimately paid for) and what happened – a new club having to start at the bottom, was a consequence of the actions of “Sir” David Murray, and the other board members, even prior to Craig Whyte rocking up.

Are fans of other clubs not allowed some sense of bitterness for the years of living beyond your means, paying some £45 million in salaries – pending any Supreme Court reversal that’s what they were, acting deceitfully for years – non disclosure of these contracts, lying about the existence of side letters, maintaining a in my view farcical stance that these were non contractual loans (not a penny of which have been re paid).

That’s bitterness I can comprehend; being bitter because your own greed and stupidity put you to your death. If Rangers fans were out in the streets barracking Murray, King et al for their irresponsible (illegal?) actions that would be bitterness I could empathise with.

As it stands, with their not inconsiderable bitterness directed wrongly at these perceived haters it only adds to the senses of bitterness pervasive in Scottish football at present: “Rangers” fans bitter that “they was did wrong” by the haters, everyone else bitter they rigged the game for years and were able to escape with no more than an unpaid fine

And this nonsense about the club and fans doing nothing wrong by the way, for whose benefit were these arrangements set up? I d argue to satisfy the demands of an irrationally self entitled support who believe they are “simply the best” and demanded the absolute best players possible, even when the club could not afford them. It was all for the glory of the Rangers, driven on by their fans, not for the good of Scottish football or any other nonsense.

“There’s no doubt it was the wrong move in my eyes. Scottish football’s been worse off and a lot of the teams who were happy to see Rangers go down there have suffered and found themselves relegated or in the process of being relegated. So there will be that bitterness.

Again, other clubs were disadvantaged for years by Rangers actions, for which there is no contrition, and while it may be true that clubs have suffered financially, something important, called sporting integrity, thankfully won the day.

Rangers had to live with the consequences of their own actions, and other clubs had to live with the consequences of Rangers actions. To blame other clubs for adhering to some ideal of sporting integrity is to completely miss the club responsible for this issue having to be addressed at all.

“How can they forget what happened to them? They can’t forget that. Nobody can forget.”

On this I agree with Walter, but the “they” he refers to in my eyes are the fans of every other club, who not only had years of a game played on an uneven field, and had to see, and lets be honest here, a large money generator in Scottish football go to the wall, which yes affected other clubs, then had to be told repeatedly that the phoenix club was in fact the same club, history intact, that went to the wall, and now we must listen as we are being told now how hard done by this club was, and how should all be ashamed of ourselves for the way we treated them.

Put all that in the mix and I d argue that yes, there is a case for bitterness in Scottish football, but not from the “Rangers” people who shovel this shite at us.

 

 

[Dynamo]

 

Prior to the huns death. I'd bet that more than 90% of TV games featured either side of the OF

 

I would like to see all tv money equally divided among all teams in the top division because it takes them all to make the league. I would like to see a spread of games as well so that other teams can receive more exposure.

 

on a side note I would be happy if all money from the league including gate receipts was evenly distributed among all teams to make it completely fair, its the only way you can have a fair competition. Anything else always leave some clubs with a distinct advantage.............this goes for all football IMO and I realise I am on my own with this as its a debate some of us had on a few occasions.

 

NFL Draft system for signings next...

 

Where's the fairness in Hearts fans (from selling out every week) funding another club like Hamilton?

[vanderark14]

 

NFL Draft system for signings next...

 

Where's the fairness in Hearts fans (from selling out every week) funding another club like Hamilton?

 

I didn't mention a draft system

 

Your last sentence is exactly why my proposal could never work, football clubs do not think as one when it comes to promoting the game or for any other matter. They are only concerned with themselves. Perhaps if the money from football had been more evenly distributed from the start less people from Hamilton would support either side of the OF and go and see their local team.................just a thought.

 

As I said I know I am on my own here, with the money involved in football nowadays the larger supported clubs will continue to dominate, there is no appetite to make the sport completely fair

[Panda]

The money distribution system was not changed to help Rangers ii.

 

It was previously unfair, with the old system in place designed to help both the Old Firm with large amounts going to 1st and 2nd, then a ridiculously large drop to 3rd and so on.

 

This was in place because the SPL wished to apologise to the Old Firm for being held back by the rest, and as compensation for offering to stay in Scotland rather then leave for England.

 

When Rangers i died, other clubs saw an opportunity for a fairer distribution. It was voted on by the clubs.

 

Where on earth do people get the idea from that other clubs, who had voted against Rangers ii being allowed into the SPL or first division, would be now trying to help them by giving them more cash? They were helping themselves.

 

They wanted to change the voting system as well from 11/1, and that was scuppered by Aberdeen who sided with Celtic. Mainly because Stewart Milne agrees with Rangers and Celtic on many matters and, wrongly in my opinion, believes a strong Old Firm is good for Scottish football.

[The Hulk]

The money distribution system was not changed to help Rangers ii.

 

It was previously unfair, with the old system in place designed to help both the Old Firm with large amounts going to 1st and 2nd, then a ridiculously large drop to 3rd and so on.

 

This was in place because the SPL wished to apologise to the Old Firm for being held back by the rest, and as compensation for offering to stay in Scotland rather then leave for England.

 

When Rangers i died, other clubs saw an opportunity for a fairer distribution. It was voted on by the clubs.

 

Where on earth do people get the idea from that other clubs, who had voted against Rangers ii being allowed into the SPL or first division, would be now trying to help them by giving them more cash? They were helping themselves.

 

They wanted to change the voting system as well from 11/1, and that was scuppered by Aberdeen who sided with Celtic. Mainly because Stewart Milne agrees with Rangers and Celtic on many matters and, wrongly in my opinion, believes a strong Old Firm is good for Scottish football.

 

Agree completely with majority of this but the voting rights thing is not as well understood as it could be.

 

For the majority of matters it was changed to 75% of all 42 clubs.

It is for league reconstruction, club expulsions and distribution of revenue that the 11-1 (90%) is required in the top division, but 75% of the rest of the SPFL also need to agree. So we could get the dreaded 11-1 but only 20-10 in the rest of the league that could veto such changes.

For agreement on commercial contracts/sponsorship, it is only voted on by the top division and it requires 8-4 (66%).

 

I think the point is that Celtic & Rangers will invariably club together upon Rangers re-joining us and effectively vote in self-interest to restore the hegemony. The way Rangers have conducted their business and their obvious lack of contrition recently show that normal service is likely to be resumed very shortly.

[tup]

The issue is that what they see as normal service, everyone else classes as years of cheating.

 

Their whole perception of themselves is based on a falsehood established whilst blatantly cheating.

 

Stripping the titles would be a start.

[tup]

Watching a Jim Baxter documentary on Alba.

 

Pretty interesting stuff.

[Chewie37]

Never mind that alchy, what happened to my End of Armageddon clip?

[Chewie37]

Found it........wrong thread ya hairy neep

[caledonia]

Jesus is there still anyone left on here that thick

Scottish football is corrupt and if you can't see that you are either a hun or incredibly stupid

 

Keep hearing the argument they are a big club so they should get more tv money and be on tv more

 

Will this not just keep Scottish football lopsided as the more they are on tv the more kids will see them and therfore more chance of supporting them ( dont say this is not true as im sure the kids with the barca shirts dont come from barcelona they see them on the telly)

Same with tv money = better players = and the corrupt cycle goes on

[Lencarl]

SOME of Scottish football's biggest names are facing the threat of disaster as George Osborne's tough new rules has seen a clampdown on tax avoidance schemes used by the wealthy.

One current Scotland player said: “There is a feeling that we are being hung out to dry.

“Some of the boys are being hit with demands for sums of seven, eight or nine times what they invested into these schemes.

“Letters are coming through effectively saying, ‘You paid £1million into such and such a scheme a couple of years ago. We want £9million into our account right now. Pay up or we’re sending round the debt collectors to start seizing your assets. We’ll argue about the details later.’

“It’s terrifying and a lot of football players from the past and present are in a real state. No one wants to be declared bankrupt but some of the guys might have no other choice.”

Read more at http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/celtic-rangers-heroes-among-football-7758612#U9kTuwgszdccQoEe.99

 

We can only hope justice will be done.

[Dynamo]

 

I didn't mention a draft system

 

Your last sentence is exactly why my proposal could never work, football clubs do not think as one when it comes to promoting the game or for any other matter. They are only concerned with themselves. Perhaps if the money from football had been more evenly distributed from the start less people from Hamilton would support either side of the OF and go and see their local team.................just a thought.

 

As I said I know I am on my own here, with the money involved in football nowadays the larger supported clubs will continue to dominate, there is no appetite to make the sport completely fair

 

I know you didn't mention a draft system I did. That would be a fair way for signings wouldn't it instead of all the bigger club signing the better players? Just going a step further than the sharing of gate money...

 

I don't agree with sharing gate money. We're not living in a communist world. Bigger clubs get more fans and in turn, higher gate receipts. That's life. If a club has successfully promoted themselves throughout the last however many years and built a solid fan base, credit to them.

 

Gate receipts are shared rightly during cup ties I will say that.

[vanderark14]

 

I know you didn't mention a draft system I did. That would be a fair way for signings wouldn't it instead of all the bigger club signing the better players? Just going a step further than the sharing of gate money...

 

I don't agree with sharing gate money. We're not living in a communist world. Bigger clubs get more fans and in turn, higher gate receipts. That's life. If a club has successfully promoted themselves throughout the last however many years and built a solid fan base, credit to them.

 

Gate receipts are shared rightly during cup ties I will say that.

 

this is virtually impossible in Scotland, I can't think of any club who has done this.

 

Because clubs refuse to share all revenue football can never be truly equal. What has communism have to do with this? you don't need to be a communist country to have sporting integrity and have a equal playing field. The fact that clubs and football as a whole is now treated as business is another reason why it will never be equal. Despite loving football myself it amazes me how many including me are attracted to such an unfair sport. If you have a think about it, its probably the most unfair sport going.

 

On the subject of sporting integrity, it was term thrown about by many during sevco gate and although sporting integrity would have been called into question if the huns were to go back into the top division its laughable the the term is used anywhere in football.

[Foster14]

 

this is virtually impossible in Scotland, I can't think of any club who has done this.

 

Because clubs refuse to share all revenue football can never be truly equal. What has communism have to do with this? you don't need to be a communist country to have sporting integrity and have a equal playing field. The fact that clubs and football as a whole is now treated as business is another reason why it will never be equal. Despite loving football myself it amazes me how many including me are attracted to such an unfair sport. If you have a think about it, its probably the most unfair sport going.

 

On the subject of sporting integrity, it was term thrown about by many during sevco gate and although sporting integrity would have been called into question if the huns were to go back into the top division its laughable the the term is used anywhere in football.

 

Sporting integrity is nigh on impossible to get without closing the doors to a league. If you had gate receipts shared equally in the top division only (I assume that would be the plan) does that not give more resources to the clubs fighting relegation, meaning that a newly promoted club will be struggling to compete against those that have had a higher share of revenues for years. The thing about the Premiership as it is, is that a club being promoted has a good chance of competing in the top division. Over time, a top league that shared resources as you suggest would become too strong for the lower division team to come up and compete.

[Dynamo]

 

this is virtually impossible in Scotland, I can't think of any club who has done this.

 

 

 

Inverness and Ross County?

Hearts crowds pre and post Romanov?

it's all relative.

[tup]

Caley and Ross County get crowds on a par with Wick Academy.

[vanderark14]

 

Sporting integrity is nigh on impossible to get without closing the doors to a league. If you had gate receipts shared equally in the top division only (I assume that would be the plan) does that not give more resources to the clubs fighting relegation, meaning that a newly promoted club will be struggling to compete against those that have had a higher share of revenues for years. The thing about the Premiership as it is, is that a club being promoted has a good chance of competing in the top division. Over time, a top league that shared resources as you suggest would become too strong for the lower division team to come up and compete.

 

good point Foster14, this is probably why it would need to see a massive shake of football here and probably europe/world wide. some teams n Scotland would have to go play in the regional leagues and leave us with a smaller amount of pro sides where the money could be evenly distributed among the pro clubs.

 

 

Inverness and Ross County?

Hearts crowds pre and post Romanov?

it's all relative

[alscotoz]

 

SOME of Scottish football's biggest names are facing the threat of disaster as George Osborne's tough new rules has seen a clampdown on tax avoidance schemes used by the wealthy.

One current Scotland player said: “There is a feeling that we are being hung out to dry.

“Some of the boys are being hit with demands for sums of seven, eight or nine times what they invested into these schemes.

“Letters are coming through effectively saying, ‘You paid £1million into such and such a scheme a couple of years ago. We want £9million into our account right now. Pay up or we’re sending round the debt collectors to start seizing your assets. We’ll argue about the details later.’

“It’s terrifying and a lot of football players from the past and present are in a real state. No one wants to be declared bankrupt but some of the guys might have no other choice.”

Read more at http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/celtic-rangers-heroes-among-football-7758612#U9kTuwgszdccQoEe.99

 

We can only hope justice will be done.

 

 

That's not fair.

[tup]

Neither is a darkie's left leg.

 

It's not right either.

 

Who cares? Footballers are thick. They were only temporarily borrowing the money from rich folk.

[rumpus]

Caley and Ross County get crowds on a par with Wick Academy.

 

Ross County average league attendance 2015/16: 4,171

 

ICT : 3,940

 

Wick High School: 236. Highest of season league game being against Keith when a humungous 350 turned up.

 

 

Please think before posting complete nonsense.

[Lencarl]

Tam Cowan: Ex-Rangers boss Walter Smith gets easy ride from media.

 

 

For the last time, Walter, they WEREN’T put down to the Third Division. After going bust — yes, even if it was JUST the company! — Rangers had to apply to JOIN the Third Division. And, instead of all the bitterness claptrap, you should actually be forever grateful to the whole of Scottish football for allowing Rangers to enter the senior leagues by jumping the queue ahead of other clubs.

Any bitterness should be directed towards the previous board members who ultimately forced Rangers into administration and liquidation. Sadly, though predictably, Walter didn’t point the finger at ONE of them.

He also never mentioned the 276 creditors who got utterly shafted by Rangers — surely they’re the ones who should be feeling bitter?

 

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/7079160/Tam-Cowan-Ex-Rangers-boss-Walter-Smith-gets-easy-ride-from-media.html

 

 

Well said Tam, just a pity there are not a lot more media types like you around.

[Tord31]

The fountain of all knowledge in terms of uefa, Bert Kassies, is predicting sevco to win the cup.

 

They are on a tiny coefficient so therefore I am guessing he is presuming Uefa will treat them as a new club in June and give them no credit for their performance five years ago.

 

If true I am sure Armageddon will ensue in June.

 

Good for a laugh

[Chewie37]

Walter Smith really is a massive cunt.

Love it when you vocalise what we all think Dad

[Panda]

The fountain of all knowledge in terms of uefa, Bert Kassies, is predicting sevco to win the cup.

 

They are on a tiny coefficient so therefore I am guessing he is presuming Uefa will treat them as a new club in June and give them no credit for their performance five years ago.

 

If true I am sure Armageddon will ensue in June.

 

Good for a laugh

He's not predicting anything. He just presumes the favourites will win when making his calculations to keep things easy.

 

Top lad is Bert. Wonder if he actually makes any money off that site.

[Redforever86]

He's not predicting anything. He just presumes the favourites will win when making his calculations to keep things easy.

 

Top lad is Bert. Wonder if he actually makes any money off that site.

I'd like to think he does it for the love of the game.

 

We should all chip in and get him something, as a gesture of recognition to his hard work.

[The Boofon]

He's not predicting anything. He just presumes the favourites will win when making his calculations to keep things easy.

Top lad is Bert. Wonder if he actually makes any money off that site.

That's what @@Sonoftherock does at tennis and he always makes a cunt of it.

[tightbreeks]

Warbs was in the sun saying how Sevco fans are fickle.

 

Mmmwweeaargh dribble mackerel paste.

[King Street Loon]

Warbs was in the sun saying how Sevco fans are fickle.

 

Mmmwweeaargh dribble mackerel paste.

You're off yer heid.